# George V denied asylum to Czar Nicholas? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 23, 2010, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-v-denied-asylum-to-czar-nicholas/537054 "2010-04-23T00:45:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2010, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-v-denied-asylum-to-czar-nicholas/537054/41 "2010-04-30T01:03:23Z")
Their Physician as also in the mass grave, was he not? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-v-denied-asylum-to-czar-nicholas/537054/42 "2010-05-01T00:14:25Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Their Physician as also in the mass grave, was he not? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-v-denied-asylum-to-czar-nicholas/537054/43 "2010-05-01T01:26:57Z")
Guin, do you think they were a bunch of thugs who enjoyed killing and mutilating the bodies, or a bunch of guys scared to death they would get caught? ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-v-denied-asylum-to-czar-nicholas/537054/44 "2010-05-01T02:10:56Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > However, the idea of four young women, who had nothing to do with the regime being slaughtered was horrifying to the world, along with an innocent young boy with hemophilia. Nothing to do with the regime? They were 2nd-5th in the line of succession, after their brother Alexi – that certainly seems ‘connected’. And it only seems reasonable, if you believe ‘all comrades are equal’ and are opposed to the very idea of royalty to make sure that the whole family is killed, including all the heirs of child-bearing age. Otherwise you leave a rallying point for the royalist opposition, with possible czars-in-exile to contend with. Much better to do as the Bible says: “wipe out my enemies and destroy all who torment me”. (Ps 143). ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-v-denied-asylum-to-czar-nicholas/537054/45 "2010-05-01T22:17:30Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Nothing to do with the regime? They were 2nd-5th in the line of succession, after their brother Alexi – that certainly seems ‘connected’. No they were not. After Alexei, as I said, it was Nicholas’s brother, Michael who the heir presumptive. Women could not inherit the throne in Russia. The law was very strict on this. (I’m NOT saying that this wouldn’t be a possibility in an “emergency situation”, mind you) ---
**Author:** ![D18](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@D18](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D18)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-v-denied-asylum-to-czar-nicholas/537054/46 "2010-05-01T22:53:51Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > No they were not. After Alexei, as I said, it was Nicholas’s brother, Michael who the heir presumptive. > Women could not inherit the throne in Russia. The law was very strict on this. (I’m NOT saying that this wouldn’t be a possibility in an “emergency situation”, mind you) Just curious - how did Catherine the Great get her reign? Not doubting you - just curious what changed. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-v-denied-asylum-to-czar-nicholas/537054/47 "2010-05-01T23:00:22Z")
> [@D18](#): > > Just curious - how did Catherine the Great get her reign? Not doubting you - just curious what changed. By overthrowing her husband. 😉 Prior to that, the monarch could _choose_ his or her own heir (Peter the Great’s idea). HOWEVER, Catherine’s SON, Paul, changed the law, so that women could not inherit the throne, unless there were no eligible males whatsoever. It was called the Pauline Law. (Paul hated his mother and wanted to make sure that only male Romanovs could inherit the throne) ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-v-denied-asylum-to-czar-nicholas/537054/48 "2010-05-01T23:21:38Z")
Off-topic, but now that Paul has entered into the discussion, the Soviet film [Lieutenant Kije](http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5960899000870748608#) is viewable online, with Prokofiev’s score. ---
**Author:** ![seanchai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@seanchai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seanchai)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-v-denied-asylum-to-czar-nicholas/537054/49 "2010-05-03T00:35:07Z")
Also, understand that the Tsarvitch Alexei suffered from a blood clotting disorder (Spanish princes had it, and one of Victoria’s sons) so removing him from his parents was not a solution. You have a child with a life threatening illness, you keep him close by. Alexei’s older sisters were not old enough to assume responsibility for him, even if Alexandra and Nicholas were willing to send him off. So, the family stayed together. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-v-denied-asylum-to-czar-nicholas/537054/50 "2010-06-22T13:12:38Z")
> [@APB](#): > > That it was George V who dissuaded Lloyd George from offering asylum, not the other way round, has been generally accepted ever since Kenneth Rose first published the evidence in his biography of the king in 1983. Yes. In his 2002 book _Monarch_, which I just finished, Robert Lacey praises Kenneth Rose’s biography _King George V_ as “definitive” and quotes it with approval. Lord Stamfordham, the King’s private secretary, wrote to then-Foreign Secretary Arthur Balfour in April 1917, “He [the King] must beg you to represent to the Prime Minister that from all he hears and read in the press, the residence in this country of the Ex-Emperor and Empress [of Russia] would be strongly resented by the public, and would undoubtedly compromise the position of the King and Queen.” The PM, Lloyd George, was actually “reluctant… to do as the king wanted.” Balfour and others nevertheless looked into finding asylum for Nicholas and Alexandra in Spain or the south of France, but “from that moment the plans… ran into diplomatic quicksand,” and the Russian royal family never got out of the country. They, their doctor, valet, cook, parlour-maid and dog were all killed by the Bolsheviks in July 1918. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-v-denied-asylum-to-czar-nicholas/537054/51 "2010-06-22T13:26:34Z")
Anastasia’s dog wasn’t a collie, was it? “Run, Lassie! Go get help!” ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-v-denied-asylum-to-czar-nicholas/537054/52 "2010-06-22T13:30:39Z")
Ah- but the dog was really a plant. It was a red setter. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-v-denied-asylum-to-czar-nicholas/537054/53 "2010-06-22T14:00:03Z")
> [@Autolycus](#): > > Well, wasn’t the whole point of intermarriage and spreading the dynasty to avoid betrayal, warfare, and other such unpleasantries? Sorry if this is too big a hijack… Check out the stories of _any_ royal or noble families throughout history. Betrayal, poisoning, cuckoldry & outright warfare abound! ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-v-denied-asylum-to-czar-nicholas/537054/54 "2010-06-22T14:30:16Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Check out the stories of _any_ royal or noble families throughout history. Betrayal, poisoning, cuckoldry & outright warfare abound! I remember reading about the family in some little Italian kingdom; at one point the uncle wanted the throne; when most of the rest of the family was in the great hall of the palace, his henchmen locked the doors and then they slaughtered them from the balcony or somewhere. Blood runs a distant third to power and wealth. Also - a lot of the interesting activities of Henry VIII were to ensure he had a firm grip on the throne. His father had just won a bloody civil war with an incredibly tenuous claim to the throne. Henry would make a point of ensuring that anyone with even a remote family tie to the Plataganets could not challenge him. When James II left for France, it meant more generations of pretenders to rally discontent, create revolution, and almost overthrow the British government. This is probably the sort of history the Bolsheviks looked at - letting the royal family go would mean someone who could be a figurehead to rally opposition, whether they wanted the throne or not. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-v-denied-asylum-to-czar-nicholas/537054/55 "2010-06-22T14:35:43Z")
Well, they didn’t do a very good job. There were still a stack of Romonovs out there. I think the decision was based a lot on the concept that the White Russians could still have won the war. Afterwards, there was no way that a Romonov could gain power while Lenin and Stalin had their grip. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-v-denied-asylum-to-czar-nicholas/537054/56 "2010-06-22T14:47:30Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > No they were not. After Alexei, as I said, it was Nicholas’s brother, Michael who the heir presumptive. > Women could not inherit the throne in Russia. The law was very strict on this. (I’m NOT saying that this wouldn’t be a possibility in an “emergency situation”, mind you) Yes and no. The line of succession was set by the Tsar, as Autocrat. Women could inherit and in fact had inherited: two Catherines, Anna, and Elizabeth, among others. Catherine II’s son Paul had plugged in the male-primogeniture-only law about 130 years before, but it was Nicholas’s prerogative to override it and, if Alexei had died, make his eldest daughter heiress if he had so chosen. (He didn’t, but my point is that he could have, and it would have been as ‘constitutional’ as the shifts in succession law during the complex dynastic shifts of the 18th century.) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-v-denied-asylum-to-czar-nicholas/537054/57 "2010-06-22T15:02:14Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > it was Nicholas’s prerogative to override it That certainly would have changed things. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-v-denied-asylum-to-czar-nicholas/537054/58 "2010-06-22T15:48:37Z")
> [@medstar](#): > > Couldn’t the King have rescued the family and quietly sent them off to another country until the furor died down?:dubious: He could also have arranged for a private firm to spirit them away, if he wanted to avoid the taint of government involvement. I’m sure any discreet, reputable international business would have been able to get them on a boat. And we all know that such a Tsar-ship enterprise would have saved the day. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-v-denied-asylum-to-czar-nicholas/537054/59 "2010-06-22T15:55:51Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > And we all know that such a Tsar-ship enterprise would have saved the day. Shame on you. :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-v-denied-asylum-to-czar-nicholas/537054.md?page=2)