# George W. attacks Wicca **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 23, 2000, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-w-attacks-wicca/37998 "2000-10-23T18:54:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2000, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-w-attacks-wicca/37998/21 "2000-10-23T22:02:38Z")
> [@](#): > > Bleeding-heart Liberal answer: Religion doesn’t kill people. Guns do. Guns do not kill. See sig line. Thank you. And Satan, weren’t you the guy trying to put a number to how many people God has killed? [Edited by UncleBeer on 10-23-2000 at 05:05 PM] ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2000, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-w-attacks-wicca/37998/22 "2000-10-23T22:05:01Z")
I intermittently consider myself Wiccan. “Intermittently” because my central definition of what lies at the core of Wicca that makes it special is its own reverence for unorthodoxy, its refusal to embrace any codification of “The Truth” or “What You Gotta Believe to Be a Good Wiccan”. from an older thread [[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=21336](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=21336)]– > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > But it has been my > > observation that most Wiccans in the context in which they exist today reject doctrine and > > orthodoxy–not just this or that specific doctrine or orthodoxy, but the very notion of having > > one. > > – AHunter3 > > Here’s where you’ll run into the rub that the young man mentioned in the original post and Pandora > were concerned about. They want their religion to be recognized as equal with others. But this will > never happen if they have no orthodoxy. Orthodoxy is what gives you the foundation to demand > such rights. – Johnny Angel I didn’t respond to Johnny Angel at the time; this is a viable position, and I have in fact come to agree completely with it. Part of what makes Wicca valid in my eyes is the very factor that makes it iffy at best that its practitioners can claim Beltain or the summer solstice as a religious holiday for which they should be excused by their employer from work. (That does not, however, make me any fonder of George W) ---
**Author:** ![Falcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/49beb7/32.png) [@Falcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falcon)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2000, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-w-attacks-wicca/37998/23 "2000-10-23T23:03:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by blessedwolf \* > \*\*Now, now…any witch worth his/_her_ salt has a moral obligation to refrain from just that sort of behaviour. > > Though you oughtn’t think I’m not tempted. \*\* You and me both, blessedwolf… ---
**Author:** ![techchick68](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea5d25/32.png) [@techchick68](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/techchick68)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2000, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-w-attacks-wicca/37998/24 "2000-10-23T23:05:08Z")
Of course, if you are concerned about protecting your constitutional rights you could vote for Harry Browne, but that’s just me. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2000, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-w-attacks-wicca/37998/25 "2000-10-23T23:17:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UncleBeer \* > And here’s another question. You folks seem to be worried about limits on the freedom of religious expression but no other freedoms. Does it not concern you that Gore would like to limit the types of guns you may own to only what he thinks appropiate? > > Hmmm? Uhh, yeah. That’s why I’m voting for the Libertarian guy. And that’s why you should, too. ---
**Author:** ![absoul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc8723/32.png) [@absoul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/absoul)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2000, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-w-attacks-wicca/37998/26 "2000-10-23T23:20:02Z")
It sounds as if this election is more about which personal freedoms we want to give up. How sad. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2000, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-w-attacks-wicca/37998/27 "2000-10-23T23:22:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UncleBeer \* > And here’s another question. You folks seem to be worried about limits on the freedom of religious expression but no other freedoms. Does it not concern you that Gore would like to limit the types of guns you may own to only what he thinks appropiate? > > Hmmm? Uhh, yeah. That’s why I’m voting for the Libertarian guy. And that’s why you should, too. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2000, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-w-attacks-wicca/37998/28 "2000-10-23T23:30:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by friedo \* > \*\* > > Uhh, yeah. That’s why I’m voting for the Libertarian guy. And that’s why you should, too. > > \*\* Is that how it is going to appear on the ballot? The Libertarian Guy. ---
**Author:** ![oldscratch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ed655f/32.png) [@oldscratch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oldscratch)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2000, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-w-attacks-wicca/37998/29 "2000-10-23T23:35:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SqrlCub \* > \*\*The really sad thing is that I moved away from Texas as soon as I could after he became governor and now he may be moving to where I live again. I think he is following me. > HUGS! > Sqrl \*\* SqrlCub, I think you’re cool and all, and I like you, but if this is true could you do us all a favor and move to, idontknow, Iran or something. thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Satan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Satan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satan)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2000, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-w-attacks-wicca/37998/30 "2000-10-24T01:03:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UncleBeer \* > > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > Bleeding-heart Liberal answer: Religion doesn’t kill people. Guns do. > > Guns do not kill. See sig line. Thank you. \*\* Well, that wasn’t _my_ answer, UB… But I am voting Libertarian as well, if anyone cares… * * * Yer pal, [Satan](http://www.members.tripod.com/jmspoofe/sdmb/satan.jpg) \*TIME ELAPSED SINCE I QUIT SMOKING: Six months, two weeks, 23 hours, 4 minutes and 23 seconds. 7918 cigarettes not smoked, saving $989.81. Extra time with Drain Bead: 3 weeks, 6 days, 11 hours, 50 minutes. **I slept with a REPUBLICAN moderator!** \* ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2000, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-w-attacks-wicca/37998/31 "2000-10-24T05:36:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by blessedwolf \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Gaudere \* > > \*\*Someone should perhaps delicately remind him that Christianity was once considered a wacky cult too. \*\* > > I say we feed 'im to the lions! 😉 \*\* The lions would spit him out. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2000, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-w-attacks-wicca/37998/32 "2000-10-24T06:07:21Z")
Did Bush say that he was going to actually take any action against Wicca or its followers? From what I read, he said that he didn’t consider it a religion. That seems more like an off-the-cuff answer about what he thought Wicca is, which a case could probably be made for, though I certainly wouldn’t agree. I realize that as Commander in Chief, he could do something to prohibit Wiccan groups from organizing on military bases, but nothing from what he did say indicated that he would do that. I would be interested to hear his responses to policy questions about this matter, but I’m not going to draw too many inferences from his ill-informed opinion of what Wicca, in fact, is. Anyways, I’m voting for the Libertarian guy myself, who I understand is listed first on the Massachusetts ballot. Although I don’t think that Massachusetts lists party affiliation on their ballots. ---
**Author:** ![evilbeth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/evilbeth/32/2268_2.png) [@evilbeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/evilbeth)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2000, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-w-attacks-wicca/37998/33 "2000-10-24T06:28:18Z")
**Uncle Beer** , why is it that some people (namely, you in this thread and **tradesilicon** in the GD [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=42396) relating to this) cannot seem to understand that just because someone is opposed to Bush that automatically means they must be _for_ Gore? I understand that this is pretty much a two-party system but there are several more people in this election besides Gore and Bush. Your retort that you don’t quite understand why people would be upset over this particular issue because Gore is just as bad on other things is weak at best. As for this quote: > [@](#): > > And here’s another question. You folks seem to be worried about limits on the freedom of religious expression but no other freedoms. Does it not concern you that Gore would like to limit the types of guns you may own to only what he thinks appropiate? The OP is specifically about this particular issue. We are discussing that issue and that issue alone. If it pleases you I suppose we could always bring in some more of Bush’s shortcomings and why we don’t like him but I’m sure you would just respond with more of your “But Gore is just as bad…” "argument. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2000, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-w-attacks-wicca/37998/34 "2000-10-24T11:37:10Z")
I get this feeling that had Al Gore been asked the same question, he’d say pretty much the same thing. Except he’d somehow manage to insert a personal vignette about “Jim Johnson from Texas, who’s in the bleachers now and was denied insurance coverage because he was too poor.” into the answer. Despite your best attempts to educate otherwise, most Americans rank wiccans right up there with Satanists. And neither candidate wants to lose mainstream America by saying something like “Oh yes, I believe witches should be given tax exempt status.” ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2000, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-w-attacks-wicca/37998/35 "2000-10-24T11:49:45Z")
Ah, I think I understand now. The Republicans get attacked for taking a position that liberals don’t like. Then, when the liberals are treated in kind, the Republicans are the bad guys for denigrating their candidate. As for the thread you’ve linked, the first non-sensical attack in it belongs to you, evilbeth. I’m not sure it really bolsters your argument. Now do you wish for me to post vengeful remarks about the candidates other than Gore, or would you like me to post some of the positive stances W has adopted? In either case, all you need to do read some more of GD. I’ve done both over there. ---
**Author:** ![doc\_miller](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f05b48/32.png) [@doc\_miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doc_miller)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2000, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-w-attacks-wicca/37998/36 "2000-10-24T12:57:24Z")
I’m already considering “wasting my vote” (voting third party), but I heard the perhaps the most compelling reason to vote for Gore. The argument was that he was so guided by polls and public opinion that if you were loud enough you could get him to back your policy preferences, whatever they happen to be. Scott ---
**Author:** ![SqrlCub](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SqrlCub](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SqrlCub)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2000, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-w-attacks-wicca/37998/37 "2000-10-24T13:32:41Z")
You know Jello Biafra is running for president also. He is pretty half-assed about it though saying that other people would do a better job. Yeah right. I think I will vote for him and pencil in Mr. T just because he “pity de fool.” I think that would be pretty funny actually. Mr. T as vice-president. oldscratch, I would move to Iran but I can think of several places that would be better like Iraq or the moon. Yeah, that would be cool. I could go outside and jump around and GW could have fun playing outside without a space suit. Yeah, that sounds even better. HUGS! Sqrl ---
**Author:** ![MadPoet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8c91f0/32.png) [@MadPoet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadPoet)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2000, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-w-attacks-wicca/37998/38 "2000-10-24T14:24:25Z")
I just wish there were a “none of the above” option. If “none of the above” wins, they have another election, and none of the old candidates are allowed in it. ---
**Author:** ![Hamish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a5b964/32.png) [@Hamish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamish)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2000, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-w-attacks-wicca/37998/39 "2000-10-24T14:29:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zoggie \* > \*\*;:looking like Horton:: > \*I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again… > > If GW becomes president, I’m moving to Canada. \*\* I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: If Stockwell Day becomes prime minister, I’m moving to Europe. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2000, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-w-attacks-wicca/37998/40 "2000-10-24T16:32:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UncleBeer \* > \*\ ***Moderator’s Notes:** If this is going to become a Bush and/or conservative bashing thread, let me know now and I’ll move it to the Pit so you folks can properly express yourselves. > > I have a question though, why is this issue important now that Bush has weighed in? Why did no one seem to care when in was only a couple senators with this opinion? > > And here’s another question. You folks seem to be worried about limits on the freedom of religious expression but no other freedoms. Does it not concern you that Gore would like to limit the types of guns you may own to only what he thinks appropiate? > > Hmmm? \*\* 1. I’m a bit concerned about the conflation of a moderator’s comments here with the addition of political opinions best expressed by UB in his private citizen role. Two separate messages might have been appropriate. 2. There’s probably some rhetorical term for diverting a debate by introducting an even more incendiary topic. Anyone knows what you’d call it? 3. Choice of religion is pretty important because of people’s belief of how it will affect their chances in the afterlife, if any. Choice of guns is pretty unimportant, because pretty much any gun will send you to the afterlife just fine. Firepower is pretty irrelevant unless you believe that Valykyries are going to pluck you from the mound of your slain enemies and haul you off to Valhalla. So it’s a pretty ingenous comparison of the relative importance of the issues. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-w-attacks-wicca/37998.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-w-attacks-wicca/37998.md?page=3)