# George Will says vote Dem in November **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 23, 2018, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619 "2018-06-23T14:14:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619/141 "2018-06-27T15:03:21Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You seem confused. You appear to think that I’m arguing over whether yelling at random innocent people is good or bad. I’m not. I think we all agree that it’s bad. I am arguing over whether it’s something done by just the right alone or the right and the left. That’s a factual question, not a moral one. O.k., then. From now on, when you point out something bad done by someone on the left, you also point out the same thing done by someone on the right. Fair enough? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619/142 "2018-06-27T15:12:49Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > No, and I never suggested it did. It’s still bad. I merely wanted to know if seeing some examples of left-wingers “yelling at random innocent people” would persuade him that it’s not a bad thing exclusive to the right side of the political spectrum. No, Hurricane, it wouldn’t persuade me of the thing that’s freakin’ bleedin’ obvious, because–and I want to repeat–it’s freakin’ bleedin’ obvious. Christ almighty. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619/143 "2018-06-27T16:10:56Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > O.k., then. From now on, when you point out something bad done by someone on the left, you also point out the same thing done by someone on the right. Fair enough? No other poster that I know of adheres to this standard, or its inverse, so I think I’ll pass. Thanks anyways. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619/144 "2018-06-27T16:19:56Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > No other poster that I know of adheres to this standard, or its inverse, so I think I’ll pass. Thanks anyways. Then quit asking it of others, and drop the “They do it tooo!” shtick. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619/145 "2018-06-27T16:43:27Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Then quit asking it of others, and drop the “They do it tooo!” shtick. To review, **LHoD** said this: > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > … The examples from the left involve confronting people in power about their specific actions; the examples from the right involve yelling at random innocent people. … I challenged the notion that “yelling at random innocent people” is coming exclusively from the right. To his credit, **LHoD** conceded the point in post #142. I have not asked him, or others, to balance their criticism between left and right, but “they do it too” is the appropriate response to a factually-incorrect claim that “your side does X but my side does not”. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619/146 "2018-06-27T17:13:19Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > To review, **LHoD** said this: > > I challenged the notion that “yelling at random innocent people” is coming exclusively from the right. To his credit, **LHoD** conceded the point in post #142. > > I have not asked him, or others, to balance their criticism between left and right, but “they do it too” is the appropriate response to a factually-incorrect claim that “your side does X but my side does not”. Nice equivalence. Calling someone out for being racist is just as bad as calling someone out for their race. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619/147 "2018-06-27T17:23:17Z")
Yeah, 'cause racism is gone, so talking about it is stirring up racial tensions, meaning the Dems are the real racists. Many of them actually believe that. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619/148 "2018-06-27T17:27:38Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Yeah, 'cause racism is gone, so talking about it is stirring up racial tensions, meaning the Dems are the real racists. > > Many of them actually believe that. And many more say it without giving a shit whether it is true or not. It isn’t truth or lie-it is a weapon to be wielded. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619/149 "2018-06-27T17:30:00Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Nice equivalence. > > Calling someone out for being racist is just as bad as calling someone out for their race. I can point to left-wing posters on these very fucking boards that call people out for their race. There’s your damn “equivalence”. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619/150 "2018-06-27T17:37:24Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > To review, **LHoD** said this: > > I challenged the notion that “yelling at random innocent people” is coming exclusively from the right. Did you know that adverbs have meaning? And that when you add them to what someone said, you change the meaning? So when you challenge the notion that yelling at random innocent people comes exclusively from the right, you’re challenging something that nobody is saying. Which is fun, I suppose, if you’re having trouble challenging what folks are actually saying, or if you want to derail a conversation into some trivial bullshit. But if you’re not aiming for that, you may want to up your game. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619/151 "2018-06-27T17:39:33Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I can point to left-wing posters on these very fucking boards that call people out for their race. There’s your damn “equivalence”. Really? If that’s true, they _should_ be called out. Who? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619/152 "2018-06-27T17:41:04Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I can point to left-wing posters on these very fucking boards that call people out for their race. There’s your damn “equivalence”. I’d like to see it. I can imagine that you may find some posters calling out people for exploiting or taking for granted their white privilege, and I would not be overly surprised if you were to use twisted logic to consider that the same things as denigrating a minority. But that is motivated reasoning on your part, because you have to find an equivalence, you have to be assured that the other side is just as bad as your side is. You are terrified to have a moment [like this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpZ8EkK3eWY), and realize that you are the side that has completely dropped any pretense of morality or ethics. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619/153 "2018-06-27T17:46:35Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Really? If that’s true, they _should_ be called out. > Who? He’s probably talking about Huey Freeman, who’s come on strong on the board lately talking about systemic racism and the complicity of folks who benefit from it. Dude paints with a pretty broad brush, just talking about white people this and wipipo that, and it’s a little irritating and IMO pretty poor political analysis–but it also does a great job demonstrating the difference between stereotyping a majority group in power (where it does nothing more than just irritate people) and stereotyping a minority group out of power (where it, for example, helps justify locking children up in cages). ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619/154 "2018-06-27T17:59:33Z")
And it’s also worth noting that most of the board’s liberals are calling him out for that broad brush. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619/155 "2018-06-27T17:59:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Really? If that’s true, they _should_ be called out. > Who? I gave you the opportunity to call it out earlier in this thread, and your response was: > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Rather than play “Let’s you and him fight”, how do _you_ perceive the problem? > [@k9bfriender](#): > > I’d like to see it. … Here are some recent example that were quick and easy to find, because they were in this same freakin’ thread: > [@Huey\_Freeman](#): > > Negro, please. Coates\* has already demolished this argument. Indeed, white folk deliberately decided to “hand over the security of its 300 million citizens; the purity of its water, the viability of its air, the safety of its food; the future of its vast system of education; the soundness of its national highways, airways, and railways; the apocalyptic potential of its nuclear arsenal — to a carnival barker who introduced the phrase grab ’em by the pussy into the national lexicon. It is as if the white tribe united in demonstration to say, ‘If a black man can be president, then any white man — no matter how fallen — can be president.’” > > … White folks are the Grand Wizards of identity politics. … > [@Huey\_Freeman](#): > > The struggle you may (or may not) be experiencing is idea that whiteness itself has become an existential threat to the country. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619/156 "2018-06-27T18:09:07Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And it’s also worth noting that most of the board’s liberals are calling him out for that broad brush. Really? > [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I agree. But the way I would word it is that protofascist whites have become an exsistential threat to this country. … > [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > … I find **Huey** ’s conclusion valid. … > [@Czarcasm](#): > > … looking at our history, I can see his viewpoint is not ridiculous or very extreme. … You think your side is doing a good job of distancing itself from his racist arguments? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619/157 "2018-06-27T18:09:44Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I’d like to see it. I can imagine that you may find some posters calling out people for exploiting or taking for granted their white privilege, and I would not be overly surprised if you were to use twisted logic to consider that the same things as denigrating a minority. But that is motivated reasoning on your part, because you have to find an equivalence, you have to be assured that the other side is just as bad as your side is. > > You are terrified to have a moment [like this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpZ8EkK3eWY), and realize that you are the side that has completely dropped any pretense of morality or ethics. The first paragraph happened just 3 posts later; any guesses on how long until the 2nd paragraph takes place? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619/158 "2018-06-27T18:12:34Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Really? > > You think your side is doing a good job of distancing itself from his racist arguments? They don’t seem racist to this white person. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619/159 "2018-06-27T18:17:43Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > They don’t seem racist to this white person. If you don’t see racism in “… whiteness itself has become an existential threat to the country” I think it’s safe to say that we’re probably not going to have a productive conversation on the topic. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619/160 "2018-06-27T18:19:23Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I gave you the opportunity to call it out earlier in this thread, and your response was: > > Here are some recent example that were quick and easy to find, because they were in this same freakin’ thread: That’s not calling a person out for their race, that is calling people out for their actions. A bit of a broad brush, but he’s not wrong. It was not black people that put this administration and congress into power, it was white people. It is exactly like I said, someone calling out people for exploiting and taking their white privileged for granted. This is not the same as denigrating someone and making them feel as though they do not belong here due to the color of their skin. Sorry, but that is just one more false equivalence. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619.md?page=9)