# George Will says vote Dem in November **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 23, 2018, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619 "2018-06-23T14:14:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619/161 "2018-06-27T18:20:31Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > If you don’t see racism in “… whiteness itself has become an existential threat to the country” I think it’s safe to say that we’re probably not going to have a productive conversation on the topic. And if hearing those rather true words causes you so much upset, then it is probably best that you don’t. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619/162 "2018-06-27T18:26:17Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > And if hearing those rather true words causes you so much upset, then it is probably best that you don’t. There’s this myth that pops up from time to time on here that I’m “upset” or my feelings are hurt by what I read here. I’d like to dispel it: I’m not upset. I think much of what gets posted here is laughable and stupid, but it very rarely upsets me. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619/163 "2018-06-27T18:27:24Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > If you don’t see racism in “… whiteness itself has become an existential threat to the country” I think it’s safe to say that we’re probably not going to have a productive conversation on the topic. “Whiteness” is an idea with a specific meaning. It’s related but not identical to skin color. The belief system and political structure identified by “whiteness” is only an existential threat to the country if you think our country isn’t built on a foundation of white supremacy–that’s the biggest beef I have with that statement. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619/164 "2018-06-27T18:28:54Z")
All this effort to defend a philosophy which put children in concentration camps. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619/165 "2018-06-27T18:58:23Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > There’s this myth that pops up from time to time on here that I’m “upset” or my feelings are hurt by what I read here. I’d like to dispel it: I’m not upset. I think much of what gets posted here is laughable and stupid, but it very rarely upsets me. Really? Do you choose to waste your valuable time here, or are you tied to a chair and forced to post so much? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619/166 "2018-06-27T19:31:01Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Really? Do you choose to waste your valuable time here, or are you tied to a chair and forced to post so much? There are the occasional diamonds among the muck. And like I said before, the wild conspiracy theories are entertaining. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619/167 "2018-06-27T19:35:12Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > If you don’t see racism in “… whiteness itself has become an existential threat to the country” I think it’s safe to say that we’re probably not going to have a productive conversation on the topic. That’s one of many reasons. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619/168 "2018-06-27T19:39:07Z")
Whiteness is a very commonly misunderstood term. It describes a socio/cultural/political system, not a race or a group of people. More here: [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=835661](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=835661) ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619/169 "2018-06-27T20:22:35Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Just FYI, I’m “white folk”, and I didn’t vote for Trump. Likewise for a large number of other white folks. I’m not sure why I should be blaming myself for Trump’s victory. White people make the biggest difference in ANY US election by sheer weight of numbers. If a quarter of white voters vote one way, that’s the same as ALL black voters voting some way. In other words, there are around four times as many white, non-hispanic people (61%) in the US as black people (14%) Hispanics aren’t much better off- they’re about 17% of the population, and are heavily concentrated (49%) in either Texas or California. So any way you slice it, even if every black or Hispanic person voted one way, you’re still looking at around half the white vote. Another way to look at it is that a whole lot of white people elected Trump, AND a whole lot of white people elected Obama as well. And that’s not getting into the issues of different voter turnout between races/ethnicities- apparently white people vote more as well, being roughly 74% of voters in the 2016 election, which is out of sync with being 61% of the population. And older people vote more as well, so it’s likely that old white people are the single largest block of actual voters out there, which may help explain some perplexing electoral results. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619/170 "2018-06-27T21:01:38Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > All this effort to defend a philosophy which put children in concentration camps. Those are not “concentration camps”. They are a disgrace and a damn shame, but they are not concentration camps. When the truth is bad enough, no additional adornment is needed. Or worthwhile. ---
**Author:** ![betterlifethroughchemistry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/betterlifethroughchemistry/32/3094_2.png) [@betterlifethroughchemistry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betterlifethroughchemistry)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619/171 "2018-06-28T05:28:21Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Keep in mind that quiet, under-the-radar misogyny is a factor, too. I live on a purple block in a purple town in a purple state. I know for sure of two neighbors that would have voted for Biden but didn’t vote for Clinton (one didn’t vote at all, the other for a third party candidate), and from conversations, I can tell there is some underlying misogeny mixed in there. (Both are women, BTW). Perhaps that is your experience, but it certainly isn’t mine…I happen to work in a company that, because they were the most qualified, employs more female chemists than male, we work primarily with a large multinational company and we interact with more female engineers than male as they, too, were the most qualified for the job…my wife, who is an intelligent, free-thinking human being, as well as all the woman I work with, would not vote for Hillary Clinton because she was just a bad candidate, first and foremost… Not a single one of the female chemists or engineers that I know, and it was a topic of conversation at several meetings, voted for Clinton…it had nothing to do with racism or misogyny, it was all about not trusting her… My wife was furious the day Albright said publicly that there was a ‘special place in hell’ for women who didn’t support each other, she was beside herself with anger that somehow she was expected to support a candidate because they were of the same sex when she did not want Clinton to be president… > **[Albright: 'special place in hell' for women who don't support Clinton](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/feb/06/madeleine-albright-campaigns-for-hillary-clinton)** > > Former secretary of state says women must help each other, while people are talking about a ‘revolution’ led by the first female US president What seems to be really missing here on these threads is the fact that Hillary Clinton was a really bad candidate, she came across as aloof and distracted, she seemed entitled, not passionate, yes, you can blame racism, misogyny, Russians, whatever, I don’t care, but she was just not a good candidate…even my liberal Baltimore 84-year old Mom couldn’t bring herself to vote for her…and my Dad had no influence, he’s been dead for 15 years…she’s no dummy, BSN, MSN, MSA… Pit me if you want, I don’t care, for the record, my wife and I both voted third party as we could not in all good conscience vote for either, and in NY state, it’s irrelevant, so you might as well vote your conscience… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619/172 "2018-06-28T06:30:38Z")
Very intelligent people are wrong just as frequently, but they are more creative in staying that way. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619/173 "2018-06-28T12:41:20Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Whiteness is a very commonly misunderstood term. It describes a socio/cultural/political system, not a race or a group of people. More here: > > [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=835661](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=835661) Great, now can we make this clear _before_ we make a post that uses “white” in a really non-standard way? Because when the average person hears “white person”, they don’t think “someone who supports a certain socio-political idea”, they think “white person”. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619/174 "2018-06-28T14:49:06Z")
Chronos: > [@](#): > > For instance, the procedure called for in Numbers 5:11-41 is both anti-choice and pro-abortion. Say what? The consequence for a suspected woman who was guilty has nothing to do with abortion, it happens to her whether she’s pregnant or not. And I’m not entirely sure what you mean by “anti-choice”, but certainly the Bible’s ethos is not based on absolute bodily autonomy. There are many things that the Bible prohibits one to do to one’s own body. It doesn’t even let you shave your head bald (with certain exceptions), and that’s not even a permanent change. And of course, there’s the biggie that the Bible mandates that one does to his body (well, a father to his infant son’s body, but if the boy didn’t get it as a child, it is his obligation when he reaches adulthood). Bottom line is that the Bible’s concept of the body is that it is on loan from G-d and has to be treated as its owner dictates. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619/175 "2018-06-28T16:39:07Z")
> [@betterlifethroughchemistry](#): > > Perhaps that is your experience, but it certainly isn’t mine…I happen to work in a company that, because they were the most qualified, employs more female chemists than male, we work primarily with a large multinational company and we interact with more female engineers than male as they, too, were the most qualified for the job…my wife, who is an intelligent, free-thinking human being, as well as all the woman I work with, would not vote for Hillary Clinton because she was just a bad candidate, first and foremost… > > Not a single one of the female chemists or engineers that I know, and it was a topic of conversation at several meetings, voted for Clinton…it had nothing to do with racism or misogyny, it was all about not trusting her… > > My wife was furious the day Albright said publicly that there was a ‘special place in hell’ for women who didn’t support each other, she was beside herself with anger that somehow she was expected to support a candidate because they were of the same sex when she did not want Clinton to be president… > > [Albright: 'special place in hell' for women who don't support Clinton | US elections 2016 | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/feb/06/madeleine-albright-campaigns-for-hillary-clinton) > > What seems to be really missing here on these threads is the fact that Hillary Clinton was a really bad candidate, she came across as aloof and distracted, she seemed entitled, not passionate, yes, you can blame racism, misogyny, Russians, whatever, I don’t care, but she was just not a good candidate…even my liberal Baltimore 84-year old Mom couldn’t bring herself to vote for her…and my Dad had no influence, he’s been dead for 15 years…she’s no dummy, BSN, MSN, MSA… > > Pit me if you want, I don’t care, for the record, my wife and I both voted third party as we could not in all good conscience vote for either, and in NY state, it’s irrelevant, so you might as well vote your conscience… We had plenty of threads about how bad a candidate HRC was, only the most blindly party loyal seem to not understand this. I still voted for her as the glaring fact that Trump appeared to be a dangerous man to be President, thus far this is sadly accurate. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619/176 "2018-06-28T17:53:17Z")
> [@betterlifethroughchemistry](#): > > What seems to be really missing here on these threads is the fact that Hillary Clinton was a really bad candidate, she came across as aloof and distracted, she seemed entitled, not passionate, yes, you can blame racism, misogyny, Russians, whatever, I don’t care, but she was just not a good candidate…even my liberal Baltimore 84-year old Mom couldn’t bring herself to vote for her…and my Dad had no influence, he’s been dead for 15 years…she’s no dummy, BSN, MSN, MSA… > > Pit me if you want, I don’t care, for the record, my wife and I both voted third party as we could not in all good conscience vote for either, and in NY state, it’s irrelevant, so you might as well vote your conscience… I have no interest in pitting you, but the fact is, you have enabled someone who aspires to be a tyrant. There is no escaping that fact. There are consequences for enabling someone with authoritarian impulses. Even if your vote “didn’t matter,” it still mattered. Because the message sent by your vote was that you would rather wait for an ideal candidate than stop a dangerous one. Trump, the Republicans, the billionaire class, and Russia got that message, which is why they’re more than willing to keep poisoning our political system. Until one day, your vote will be meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619/177 "2018-06-28T19:21:24Z")
The “bitter water that carries a curse” is said to cause the unborn infant to fall from her womb. In other words, it’s an abortifacient drug, together with a prayer that it won’t work if she’s innocent. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619/178 "2018-06-28T20:34:56Z")
That’s a misinterpretation of some sort. The actual verse says “Her belly will swell, and her thigh will fall.” I suppose such an event could cause a miscarriage, but the procedure is applied to non-pregnant women as well as to pregnant ones, so clearly it is at most a side effect (if even that) and not the intended punishment. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619/179 "2018-06-28T23:21:45Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > On social issues that the rednecks of Flyoverland care about — abortion, gun control, gay rights — Democrats are pulling hard, and alienating many American voters. Nope. What you’re seeing is a con game. For example: 1. Republicans propose and/or pass some legislation which is deliberately targeted at a minority population (gays, blacks, trans, etc). 2. Democrats fight back in the name of civil rights. 3. Republicans use this to say “See? Democrats only care about minorities and perverts!” Or: 1. Republicans propose and/or pass some legislation which is blatantly unconstitutional (e.g. enforcing prayer in schools). 2. Democrats fight back in the name of the civil rights AND the Constitution. 3. Republicans use this to say “See? Democrats hate Christians/veterans/America!” Etc. etc. It’s an easy game for the GOP because there’s no downside for them: either the Democrats oppose them and give them material for their propaganda, or Democrats don’t oppose them and give them a win for their agenda. All it takes is for them to have no scruples and not actually give a fuck about the Constitution. Hell, most of the time they get the taxpayers to pay for their side of the court cases. Never mind that Clinton spent more time talking about jobs than any other subject during the campaign; the GOP are very good at spreading the lie that Democrats hate the white working class (the ones currently being screwed by the GOP) and many end up believing it. > [@Akaj](#): > > Come on – not everything is a code for hatred. > > The people I know who oppose legal abortion do so because they believe they’re protecting vulnerable human lives. They don’t hate women – they simply believe the fetus’ rights are more important. You may be right about the people you know. But here’s a question: do they vote for people who block access to affordable birth control pills, family planning advice and women’s health centers? Do they oppose comprehensive sex education in schools? Because if they claim to oppose abortion yet oppose efforts to reduce the unwanted pregnancies that result in abortions, they don’t **really** oppose abortion; as already said, they just want to feel smug and superior while punishing women for daring to have sex. People who genuinely want to stop abortion ought to thank God for Planned Parenthood, not try to shut it down; PP prevent far more abortions than they perform. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Just out of curiousity, when was the last time a left-wing intellectual needed massive security to protect him or her from mobs of the authoritarian right? The ‘authoritarian right’ don’t need mobs anymore - they run the government and[can send their official representatives instead](http://digg.com/video/ice-whistleblower-interview). Of course, ICE have been engaged in a lot of brutal behavior of questionable legality (and morality) lately but it’s okay because they’re [just following orders](http://www.newsweek.com/ice-director-uses-nazi-defence-claim-border-policy-not-hitler-regime-were-just-985451). When was the last time the ‘authoritarian left’ had their own stormtroopers? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619/180 "2018-06-28T23:34:41Z")
Are we counting the League of Women Voters? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-says-vote-dem-in-november/816619.md?page=10)