George Will says vote Dem in November

I’m not sure why you are saying that is racist. 86% of whites who score high on authoritarianism voted for Trump.

There are authoritarians of all races, but the non-whites know the republican party is hostile to them. So they do not join them.

I stand by what I said.

White protofascists are an existential threat to American democracy and the American way of life. They do not respect western values.

Scratch the surface of the right wingers who love Trump, who hate the free press, who hate an independent judiciary, who support torture, who support destroying our alliances, who ignore Russia and the threat it poses, who oppose the FBI, who oppose intelligence agencies, etc.

You will probably find white authoritarians behind these things most of the time. You will not find black people who score low on authoritarianism railing against an independent judiciary or the FBI. You won’t find whites low on authoritarianism supporting the war on the FBI. It is probably whites high on authoritarianism.

I’m not wrong. Just because what I said sounds offensive to you doesn’t make it wrong.

Blacks commit over half the homicides, despite only being ~13% of the country. That fact is insulting, but it isn’t wrong.

And white authoritarians are the biggest threat we are facing to democracy and western values (bigger than Islamic terrorism, which is just their cultures version of authoritarianism).

Authoritarianism is a major global threat. It is causing protofascist and isolationist movements in the west as well as Islamic terrorism in muslim nations. And in the west, it is whites who are high on authoritarianism who are behind the dangerous aspects of this movement. Latinos and blacks and asians who are high on authoritarianism are not the ones railing against a free press and in favor of torture.

I’m not wrong.

I think that’s the issue that Democrats have to deal with. They need to be able to speak to all groups in all areas of the country. There are vast swaths of America where Dems are essentially unelectable, most likely due to cultural issues such as gays, guns, and abortion. Dems are increasingly isolated in Urban areas, and/or areas where there are a large majority of minorities. It wouldn’t hurt them to have a few candidates that were pro-life or pro-gun.

Trump tapped into something. I think it was very ugly, a lot of it. But he showed up and talked to these people. Hillary did not.

Keep in mind that Trump ran on big government programs. He defended SS, Medicare, and Medicaid during the election. In some ways, his election was a repudiation of small-government conservatism. This should give Democrats hope. They can talk about economic issues, but not get shut out on cultural issues.

You are right that trump tapped into something there. Hillary did show up and talk to these people as well, they just didn’t listen.

She told them that she was going to work to improve their way of life, even though the coal jobs were not coming back.

He said that their coal jobs were coming back.

The only thing I can take away from that is that people will vote for the person with the biggest lies.

What I’m saying is that on economic issues, small-government conservatism was defeated in 2016. Dems can compete in that arena easily with Pubs, because they actually believe in those programs.

Where Dems fall behind is in cultural issues.

And yes, Trump was the biggest liar. There’s no doubt about that. He takes it to a different level. I was a Republican myself until 2016, when I found that Trump was a line in the sand for me. I live in a Red State, and in a hard-red District. Democrats are seen as Un-American around here, and it’s mostly cultural/racial issues, not economics.

A lot of times, when folks say “cultural issues,” they mean, “issues that are extra-important to people who aren’t straight cis white men.” Things like ensuring that police treat black people equally, or that Latinos aren’t discriminated against, or that gay people can marry and adopt children, or that women are not sexually harassed. Y’know, “cultural issues.”

Is that what you mean by the phrase? Are white men’s issues just normal issues, and everything else is a “cultural issue”? If not, what do you mean?

Oh, and Max Boot has joined the call:

I’m mainly talking about Guns and Abortion. I think the Dems would benefit by having more than just an occasional pro-life and pro-gun person in the party. You can break bread on a few hot-button issues, if they’ll support you on the other 95% of your positions.

Except that these are key issues for a lot of Democrats. This isn’t a ball game where you just root for whichever team you want. Ensuring that women have access to reproductive choice is pretty vital for a lot of Democrats; and decreasing our epidemic of gun violence is also pretty vital for a lot of Democrats.

Now, sure, maybe some folks who believe in individual gun rights should run as Democrats and see if they can win. I have no problem with them trying. But they may find that these issues are too important to compromise on.

Yes, I understand that those issues matter a lot to a lot of people. But the question I’m raising is “How far does a party go in enforcing ideological purity?” If a candidate is running in a district that leans red, and he/she supports your party’s positions 90% of the time, are you going to cut him/her off because of Abortion? No one agrees with their party’s platform 100% of the time. If you enforce the platform position on Abortion and Guns, then you effectively lock yourself out of many districts, and people in said districts won’t care what you think on anything else.

I think you’re taking too abstract a view. Let’s get concrete. When you say “are you going to cut him/her off,” what do you mean?

As a voter, I’ll vote for the person that’ll advance my position the best. If it’s a choice between the pro-life socialist and the pro-life plutocrat, I’m going to hold my nose and vote for the former. But if it’s a choice between the pro-life socialist and the pro-choice socialist, I’m voting for the latter.

I’m not sure of any other platform enforcement. Is there some mechanism by which folks aren’t allowed to run as Democrats unless they sign on to a pro-choice position, no matter what voters in the primary would want?

There’s another major issue, and my wife likes to put it this way: our goal isn’t to get the Baptists to convert to Catholicism. Our goal is to get Catholic butts in the pews. If we decide to compromise our values enough that a few moderates will swing our way, we’re going to discourage a lot of folks who would otherwise vote for us from coming out to the polls at all. This sort of advice, to move to the right, is what Clinton (Mr. and Ms.) both tried. He succeeded, but she failed, and his success turned me and others like me away from Democrats for years.

Why is there always so much talk about how Democrats have to allow candidates to deviate from the party platform? Of course we have to, and so we do. There are already plenty of pro-life and pro-gun politicians in the Democratic Party. It’s the Republicans who have a problem with insisting on party purity.

From what I’ve seen, the reality in most red-leaning Congressional districts is that a GOP candidate whose positions on abortion and / or guns deviate at all from the party line is going to get labeled as “supports abortion up until the moment of birth,” “wants to take away your guns,” etc., and will get pummeled in the primary by other GOP candidates who hew to the line.

And my answer to that is that there may be some Episcopalians, Methodists, Lutherans, and Presbyterians who might be willing to hear the Catholic message. Don’t bend yourself too much to please the hard-line Baptist. There might be others that are in between that you can attract.

I know what I’m saying is easier said than done. I’m just worried that Democrats are locked out of many districts because of a few issues. They don’t have to become Republicans in order to become electable, except on a few issues.

It could apply to either party. The Republicans just happen to be in the driver’s seat right now in that they have majorities at all levels of government…hence, less need for them to change their tactics or strategy. Maybe that will change after the midterms.

As I see it, Clinton’s Third Way has been the organizing principle for Democrats for the past quarter century, much more willingness to cater to moderates and putative swing voters. Republicans have had much more message control, much more unification of disparate party wings, much more willingness to make moderates vote for extremist stuff they personally disagree with in order to promote party unity.

We see which approach has been more successful.

Yeah, I had originally thought the same thing pre-Trump. He definitely broke with Conservative Orthodoxy on some issues. I don’t use him as an example to emulate, as I detest the man. But I was surprised - at the time - at how many people went along with him on issues where other Republicans tried to demonize him, such as trade and entitlements. I think that Democrats could maybe break into a few more districts if they were more flexible on a few issues.

A person could just as easily say that “black criminality” is to be defined as the fact that the average (mean) conviction rate of black people is higher than the conviction rate of other “races”. A while back, I was annoyed by a link to that guy from the WSJ editorial board, the African-American, can’t remember his name… (looking…) Jason Riley is his name, and he was writing about the problem of “black criminality” in the US, and he was clearly using the term in exactly that way. Obviously he wasn’t saying that as a black man, he was personally a criminal. He was talking about group averages. If we were to define the term so, as he did, then it would be “true”. It’s true that the averages are different.

It’s still a hideous term.

If a poster on the boards started using this term – even if the term was carefully and explicitly defined before being used – I hope would there would still be objections to using it here. Even given the true fact of mean differences, the term can carry the disturbing potential connotation of causality, as if there is something in “blackness” that leads to criminality. The term does not engage with individuals as individuals, does not engage the systematic history of discrimination against the black community in American history, does not explore the differences between how certain crimes are punished (the crack-cocaine distinction, for instance), does not explore how sellers of drugs that are legal, such as alcohol and tobacco, are much less violent than sellers of illegal drugs. The violence from drugs comes from their criminality, as can be seen from alcohol prohibition, the gangsters and bootleggers. If the cultural conditions were improved, it’s easy to imagine “black criminality” disappearing entirely, the mean difference evaporating into nothingness.

The term doesn’t have any of that nuance. It’s an awful term. And the awfulness generalizes.

The attempt to define a dehumanizing term into something innocuous does not make it innocuous. It is awful precisely because of its inherent potential to ignore individual difference. Using a term that potentially treats an entire group the same way, despite the variance within that group, has the inherent power to be abused by the abusive. And even supposing that its use is innocent – naive rather than malicious – it still carries the potential to be inadvertently abrasive. Summary statistics are dehumanizing. Talking about group means, rather than individuals, is dehumanizing. Obviously, we need summary statistics, we can’t keep whole data sets inside our heads, but we can still talk with care about what we’re discussing when we’re discussing groups and group differences.

If a term is “very commonly misunderstood”, then it is a bad term.

There’s an asymmetry here. The potential harm in one direction is obviously much greater than the harm in the other. But that’s still an average. It’s generally true, but not always true, because there is still variance within groups. Averages don’t apply to the entire population. That’s the whole point. There are vulnerable people within privileged groups. People are still different. To allow dehumanizing terms in one direction, while making them verboten in the other direction, is not some random outcome. It’s a deliberate choice to allow open season in only one direction. And the very deliberateness of that choice makes it insulting.

This is not a hard idea.

I’m often astounded about the number of people writing on social issues who aren’t particularly sensitive to this. Dehumanization can work in any direction. That’s true even when it is, on average, worse in one direction than another.

If you have better ideas for these terms, feel free to offer them. Maybe they’ll catch on.

White supremacy is a way better term than whiteness. It’s still a poorly crafted term to describe behaviors and actions in modern times while simultaneously using it for jim crow and prior times. “Whiteness” is bad because outside of a small circle of folks, it’s usage is not informative. It should be expected to derail any conversation because it’s so poorly crafted.

Imagine if we define “blackness” as higher commission of violent crime, out of wedlock birth, lower income, or any other negative stereotype. That would be just as wrong, inaccurate, and offensive. To be clear, it is not personally offensive because it’s so obviously silly and laughable. I laugh at it. No, it’s offensive to the English language.

Okay. So you’re fine with “black criminality”.

Good to know.