# George Will: Watergate of 1980? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 24, 2004, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-watergate-of-1980/270892 "2004-10-24T13:52:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2004, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-watergate-of-1980/270892/1 "2004-10-24T13:52:18Z")
Did anyone catch the report on NPR that George Will stole President Jimmy Carter’s notes and turned them over to the Reagan camp? Is this ethical journalism? Shouldn’t he be forced to resign from his “holoier than thou” position? Someone ought to tie that man up by his bowtie for a pubic (sic) stoning! What a SOB! I hope he chokes on that giant silver spoon sticking out of his mouth! - Jinx ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2004, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-watergate-of-1980/270892/2 "2004-10-24T14:19:51Z")
Is there a debate, here? Or was this supposed to be placed in the **Pit**? Sanctimomious George’s little bit of dishonesty happened almost a quarter century ago and has been known, publicly, for years. (I hope that this was an item in a larger “election misdeeds” story on NPR and not a whole news item.) I’m not sure what you want to do with this thread. (I suppose that if you don’t get a paper with Will’s column, you could print the thread and put it face up at the bottom of a bird cage.) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2004, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-watergate-of-1980/270892/3 "2004-10-24T16:35:40Z")
Can we get a cite for this? I remember there was a controversy about Will being a Reagan advisor and also a TV commentator on the debates when he declared Reagan the winner of the debate. I never heard about stealing notes. Surely you meant for this to be in the Pit… ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2004, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-watergate-of-1980/270892/4 "2004-10-24T17:01:03Z")
I don’t have a cite handy at the moment-sorry!-but it’s pretty well-known that _someone_ stole one of Carter’s briefing books and passed it to the Reagan team. Whether or not it was Will, I can’t say. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2004, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-watergate-of-1980/270892/5 "2004-10-24T18:13:34Z")
> [@](#): > > Can we get a cite for this? I remember there was a controversy about Will being a Reagan advisor and also a TV commentator on the debates when he declared Reagan the winner of the debate. Whoa. There was a time when that sort of thing was _controversial_??? ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2004, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-watergate-of-1980/270892/6 "2004-10-24T18:16:50Z")
Well, I think the controversial part is that in analyzing the debate, he didn’t bother to note that he had been a debate advisor for Reagan. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2004, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-watergate-of-1980/270892/7 "2004-10-24T18:32:45Z")
It’s easy enough to find cites. Will didn’t steal the briefings; somebody else involved with Reagan’s campaign apparently did, though I don’t think anyone knows who that person is for certain. Will certainly used the notes to help plan for the debates. All involved knew the notes were stolen, and it was most definitely unethical. However, Carter is probably the only candidate in the last 100 years who would have, in his opponents’ shoes, done the ethical thing and returned such stolen intelligence himself. Will tried to downlplay his involvement in the affair, even after writing a column praising Reagan’s performance (gee, I wonder how he did so well, George…). When he got caught, Will was generally unapologetic, essentially saying had he known he was going to be raked over the coals for it, he wouldn’t have done it; but he expressed no other remorse for his actions. That’s pretty much all there was to the episode. Will’s a hypocritically sanctimonious, rhetorically disingenuous twat, but you hardly need to know about the Carter episode to figure that out. ---
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2004, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-watergate-of-1980/270892/8 "2004-10-31T02:20:10Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > It’s easy enough to find cites. Will didn’t steal the briefings; somebody else involved with Reagan’s campaign apparently did, though I don’t think anyone knows who that person is for certain. Gee, we should have guessed all Republicans sleep in the same bed with such high-standing, ethical people like Richard Nixon. He’s the poster-child of fair play. > [@Loopydude](#): > > Carter is probably the only candidate in the last 100 years who would have, in his opponents’ shoes, done the ethical thing and returned such stolen intelligence himself. Yes, that is the most amazing thing about Jimmy Carter. He is a man of integrity. > [@Loopydude](#): > > Will’s a hypocritically sanctimonious, rhetorically disingenuous twat, but you hardly need to know about the Carter episode to figure that out. Yeah, like I said…he deserves a public stoning! BTW, Carter himself recebtly announced it was Will. I’m trying to find a cite for this. I was hoping this thread may bring others to my aid. - Jinx ---
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2004, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-watergate-of-1980/270892/9 "2004-10-31T02:23:25Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Is there a debate, here? Or was this supposed to be placed in the **Pit**? > > Sanctimomious George’s little bit of dishonesty happened almost a quarter century ago and has been known, publicly, for years. (I hope that this was an item in a larger “election misdeeds” story on NPR and not a whole news item.) > > I’m not sure what you want to do with this thread. (I suppose that if you don’t get a paper with Will’s column, you could print the thread and put it face up at the bottom of a bird cage.) A quarter of a century later, and the Teflon President lives on in as Mr. Righteous. I’m sorry, but this really burns me. And, not enough has been said about this openly. But, I’m sure, he’s got a million Patsies (ala Oliver North) to take the blame. Even posthumously, Reagan rides off in sunset blinding America’s eyes to the truth about this man in a suit of teflon armor. - Jinx :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/47e85d/32.png) [@Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Lance_Murdoch)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2004, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-watergate-of-1980/270892/10 "2004-10-31T03:31:50Z")
And people still refer to ABC as part of the “liberal media.” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2004, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-watergate-of-1980/270892/11 "2004-10-31T03:48:03Z")
And what the fuck is it about bow ties? George F. Will, Tucker Carlson, that Ichabod Crane looking guy who shows up on _Lehrer_ every once in a while. Its like prissy little twits with stainless steel sphincters who crave to present the world with one entirely pointless expression of indiviual eccentricity, but one without any risk, that can offend no one, but yet makes one the teensiest bit odd. I mean, love beads and pachouli oil I can understand. But bow ties and Old Spice…creepy. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2004, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-watergate-of-1980/270892/12 "2004-10-31T05:10:09Z")
> [@Jinx](#): > > A quarter of a century later, and the Teflon President lives on in as Mr. Righteous. I’m sorry, but this really burns me. And, not enough has been said about this openly. But, I’m sure, he’s got a million Patsies (ala Oliver North) to take the blame. Even posthumously, Reagan rides off in sunset blinding America’s eyes to the truth about this man in a suit of teflon armor. - Jinx :mad: Still waiting either for your cite that Will stole anything, or a retraction of that part of your OP. You being so concerened with the truth and all… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2004, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-watergate-of-1980/270892/13 "2004-10-31T05:42:31Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Still waiting either for your cite that Will stole anything, or a retraction of that part of your OP. You being so concerened with the truth and all… 🙂 I can’t offer a cite, but I heard the interview on NPR too, and Carter categorically stated that Will stole the notes and used them to rehearse Reagan for the debates. He may have misspoke, but that is what he said. More likely, in my mind, is that Will obtained the notes from whoever did steal them – it is hard to see how Will could have been in a position to steal them personally – and used them. He’s still a total asshole and a thief by association for using them. But we all know that. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2004, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-watergate-of-1980/270892/14 "2004-10-31T06:19:29Z")
Funny thing is that there is not one single cite in this whole thread. I’ve googled every combo of “Will…Reagan…Carter…Debate…notes…stolen” that I can think of, and haven’t found anything. No cite, no credibility. Sorry, guys. ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2004, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-watergate-of-1980/270892/15 "2004-10-31T08:36:57Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Funny thing is that there is not one single cite in this whole thread. > > I’ve googled every combo of “Will…Reagan…Carter…Debate…notes…stolen” that I can think of, and haven’t found anything. > > No cite, no credibility. Sorry, guys. Carter made the allegation on a recent episode of Fresh Air. They don’t have the transcripts on line, but if you want you can listen to it [here](http://freshair.npr.org/day_fa.jhtml?display=day&todayDate=10/21/2004). He mostly talks about a book he just wrote, but they get into other things later in the interview. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2004, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-watergate-of-1980/270892/16 "2004-10-31T15:56:54Z")
> [@Manduck](#): > > Carter made the allegation on a recent episode of Fresh Air. Just to be clear: “Carter said it in an interview” is not a cite. Over in the ObL tape thread we have a Larry King interview of Walter Cronkite saying he thinks Karl Rove is a likely source of that tape. ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2004, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-watergate-of-1980/270892/17 "2004-10-31T19:54:45Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Just to be clear: “Carter said it in an interview” is not a cite. Who has to say it, and in what context, in order for it to be a cite? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2004, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-watergate-of-1980/270892/18 "2004-10-31T20:06:04Z")
**John Mace** , are you disputing that it was Will who stole the book, or that the book was stolen in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2004, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-watergate-of-1980/270892/19 "2004-10-31T20:47:42Z")
> [@Manduck](#): > > Who has to say it, and in what context, in order for it to be a cite? I’m not an authority on what a “cite” is, but politicians often get their facts mixed up or exagerate. Speaking only for myself, I’d be happy with an article published in a major newspaper by a journalist that can be cross-referenced to an original source. > [@Guin](#): > > ``` > John Mace, are you disputing that it was Will who stole the book, or that the book was stolen in the first place? > > ``` Mostly the former, but I’ve never heard about the latter, so I’d prefer both. Several people seem so certain, I don’t know why it would be hard to find a cite, if either is true. And like I said, I did quite a bit of googling and came up with absolutely nothing. I’m not saying that I know either claim to be false, but it does seem strange that thread could get his far without one actual cite. \*\*Manduck \*\*at least provided a link, although it’s an audio one and not what can objectively be called a cite. If you’ve heard the audio, do you know if the interviewer pressed Carter at all on the issue, or is it just stated and left at that? ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2004, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-watergate-of-1980/270892/20 "2004-10-31T22:08:54Z")
George Will has been cheerfully pointing out facts that serve his agenda for years, while at the same time ignoring facts that do not serve his agenda. He’s a columnist, a pundit, an opinionator, and therefore outside the usual code of “objective journalism.” He can pretty much say what he likes, as long as he doesn’t actually lie. This includes twisting and misrepresenting the facts to reflect what he wants them to seem like. Business as usual, really. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-will-watergate-of-1980/270892.md?page=2)