# George Zimmerman - In the news again **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 31, 2014, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480 "2014-07-31T13:26:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/621 "2015-01-12T23:13:12Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > If you weren’t such a fucking ignorant twat, you’d realise that I was referring to the fact that the majority of people who have to kill in self defence in the US are black. Fortunately they’re not being locked up for being victims of crime, unlike what you and **iiandyiiii** would like. Every once in a while you post in such a way that makes me wonder if you forgot your meds. Who are you trying to impress with this language? > [@](#): > > I don’t think I’ve ever seen such a discussion on this message board. You would be wrong. You have in fact participated in them. I bet you can’t guess what your position was, though I bet everyone else can. > [@](#): > > I’m unlikely, to put it mildly, to support the conviction of anyone who kills in self defence. Race is irrelevant. You should try reading for comprehension. > [@](#): > > I don’t tend to memorise the race of people I’m talking about. Yeah, it’s just coincidence you’re always calling the black people thugs. > [@](#): > > I’d be astonished if I haven’t praised some black actors or musicians here at some point. I’m wearing a fucking Miles Davis t-shirt right now… Some of your best friends are black? > [@](#): > > Frankly, the idea that, because I don’t like or approve of thugs and thuggish behaviour, I must be racist shows you, not me, making the connection between that behaviour and a certain race. It’s bullshit. Yeah, we’re the racists for noticing that you’re always calling black people thugs. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/622 "2015-01-12T23:16:35Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > He didn’t say someone who killed in self-defense – he said someone who claimed self-defense. Unless you believe that every claim of self defense is legitimate. I doubt there’s very many false ones, and I’m absolutely certain there’s far more people in jail for killing in self defence that those who’ve got away with murder. I’d also be amazed if the majority of those wrongly jailed are not black, given the prejudice in your justice system. There’s no chance I’m going to support a conviction based on the testimony of a potentially biased witness. For any crime. > [@](#): > > Why did you call Jordan Davis a thug? Do you still think he’s a thug? Do you still feel absolutely no sadness that he’s dead? Because of his behaviour. No, he’s dead. No, why would I? Millions of people die every day, I’m not going to be sad for all of them. Most of them don’t deserve it either, and most of them couldn’t have taken the simple step of not acting like a dick to save their life. He would be way, way down any give-a-shit list. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/623 "2015-01-12T23:20:37Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Yeah, we’re the racists for noticing that you’re always calling black people thugs. I’m calling _thugs_ thugs. Based on behaviour, nothing else. But go on, link me to a thread where a black person was defending themselves against a white person (no, resisting arrest is not self defence, before you link to those), and show me where I criticise the black guy. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/624 "2015-01-12T23:21:09Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > There’s no chance I’m going to support a conviction based on the testimony of a potentially biased witness. For any crime. Or more than one “biased” witness, or an unbiased witness, or physical evidence. Provided the crime is murdering an unarmed black kid, of course. > [@](#): > > Why did you call Jordan Davis a thug?..? > > > [@](#): > > > > Because of his behaviour. Innocent victim of crime is black? Check **Steophan** called him a thug? Check Murderer convicted under rule of law? Check **Steophan** proposes ignoring rule of law? Check That’s a bingo! ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/625 "2015-01-12T23:22:20Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Every once in a while you post in such a way that makes me wonder if you forgot your meds. Oh, and mocking people for being mentally ill? That makes you look so big and clever. Well done. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/626 "2015-01-12T23:23:57Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I’m calling _thugs_ thugs. Based on behaviour, nothing else. Innocent person shot to death by lunatic? Check Innocent person is black? Check **Steophan** calls innocent victim a thug “because of his behavior”? Check (That behavior? Apparently the appalling rudeness of being shot to death) That’s another bingo! ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/627 "2015-01-12T23:23:39Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Or more than one “biased” witness, or an unbiased witness, or physical evidence. Provided the crime is murdering an unarmed black kid, of course. Where’s the physical evidence that he wasn’t threatened? Where’s the unbiased witness? You have nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/628 "2015-01-12T23:25:44Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Oh, and mocking people for being mentally ill? That makes you look so big and clever. Well done. Being mentally ill is not an excuse for being an asshole. You have control over what you type, right? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/629 "2015-01-12T23:26:29Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I doubt there’s very many false ones, and I’m absolutely certain there’s far more people in jail for killing in self defence that those who’ve got away with murder. I’d also be amazed if the majority of those wrongly jailed are not black, given the prejudice in your justice system. Got a cite for these claims – especially the one you’re “absolutely certain” of? > [@](#): > > There’s no chance I’m going to support a conviction based on the testimony of a potentially biased witness. For any crime. How about an admission that he pulled the trigger, mounds of physical evidence (but none that supports self-defense), and multiple witness testimony that it wasn’t self-defense _including the testimony of the accused’s girlfriend_? Any chance you’d support a conviction based on that? Hypothetically, other than recording of the incident, is there any possible witness testimony or physical evidence that would convince you beyond a reasonable doubt that Dunn was guilty? From what you’ve said so far, once he claimed self-defense then (in your mind) _nothing other than a recording could prove him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt_. You keep mentioning the bias – was his girlfriend biased when she said he lied about the shotgun? > [@](#): > > Because of his behaviour. What behavior? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/630 "2015-01-12T23:26:55Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > But go on, link me to a thread where a black person was defending themselves against a white person (no, resisting arrest is not self defence, before you link to those), and show me where I criticise the black guy. OK, suppose I do this? What will you do if I can in fact link to you doing this? What is my payoff? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/631 "2015-01-12T23:27:44Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Being mentally ill is not an excuse for being an asshole. You have control over what you type, right? Indeed. What’s your excuse? Or do you just like seeing scared people unable to defend themselves? Because that’s what you’re proposing. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/632 "2015-01-12T23:28:44Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > OK, suppose I do this? What will you do if I can in fact link to you doing this? What is my payoff? You get to be right. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/633 "2015-01-12T23:29:54Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Being mentally ill is not an excuse for being an asshole. You have control over what you type, right? > > Indeed. Now that you’ve acknowledged your behavior, what’s your plan for stopping? > [@](#): > > Or do you just like seeing scared people unable to defend themselves? Because that’s what you’re proposing. No it isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/634 "2015-01-12T23:31:03Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > You get to be right. I’m already right. What specific thing will you do when I win this bet? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/635 "2015-01-12T23:32:08Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > I’m already right. What specific thing will you do when I win this bet? You have nothing, then. Well done you. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/636 "2015-01-12T23:34:01Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > You have nothing, then. Well done you. Don’t be scared. Propose a specific thing that you will do if I win this bet, and let’s see what I can provide. ---
**Author:** ![Nuveena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a587f6/32.png) [@Nuveena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nuveena)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/637 "2015-01-12T23:34:20Z")
Self defense is an affirmative defense. The accused has to demonstrate he had an honest and reasonable fear for his life. It’s not just presumed he acted in self defense unless the prosecution can prove otherwise. So, the jury is free to evaluate his statements against the other witness statements and find they are not credible. The prosecution proved beyond a reasonable doubt that the accused killed the victim and the defense did not demonstrate to the jury’s satisfaction that he acted in self defense. Hence, the guilty verdict. To suggest that a murder conviction should require either the victim being shot in the back or multiple eye witnesses who don’t know the victim or the accused is absurd. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/638 "2015-01-12T23:35:39Z")
> [@Nuveena](#): > > Self defense is an affirmative defense. No it isn’t, at least not in Florida. And the idea of an affirmative defence is hideously immoral, so hopefully other places will follow Florida’s lead. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/639 "2015-01-12T23:38:37Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Don’t be scared. Propose a specific thing that you will do if I win this bet, and let’s see what I can provide. The Game Room is that way \<----------- if you want to play silly games. You’re the one making an accusation, it’s on you to back it up. Otherwise, everyone knows you have nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/640 "2015-01-12T23:41:28Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > No it isn’t, at least not in Florida. And the idea of an affirmative defence is hideously immoral, so hopefully other places will follow Florida’s lead. **Steophan** is a big defender of the rule of law, unless that law is getting in the way of white people murdering black people and getting away with it. In fact, if you want to know if **Steophan** is for or against any particular law, just ask yourself–has that law resulted in a recent news story about a white person being convicted for murdering a black person? If so, **Steophan** is against it. Has that law resulted in a recent news story about a white person getting away with murdering a black person? Than **Steophan** is for it. This simple rule works 100% of the time. But he’s not a racist–he’s wearing a Miles Davis shirt, for God’s sake. (Miles Davis was a thug, though). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480.md?page=31) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480.md?page=33)