# George Zimmerman - In the news again **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 31, 2014, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480 "2014-07-31T13:26:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 36
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/701 "2015-01-13T20:45:23Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > No, I don’t think he should be walking free, I think the convictions for attempted murder should stand. As a matter of principle, I think he should not be convicted of murder - as indeed, he wasn’t at the original trial. But Dunn’s not a thug. Got it. Attempted murderer, but not a thug. I guess because he didn’t have any music on? Is that it? Even though he _is_ a convicted criminal, and I believe attempted murder would be considered anti-social, still not a thug? If not, why? So did you find that cite showing that Davis playing music in his car was a crime in that location and time? Remember, by your own standards, if there was no crime, he can’t have been a thug by definition. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/702 "2015-01-13T20:54:40Z")
If you think “thug” is worse than “attempted murderer”, then good for you. I doubt most people would agree, and when I used those particular words I certainly didn’t mean that. But hey, have fun twisting my words trying to show something that isn’t true. I’m sure it’ll make you feel better. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/703 "2015-01-13T20:58:56Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > If you think “thug” is worse than “attempted murderer”, then good for you. I doubt most people would agree, and when I used those particular words I certainly didn’t mean that. > > But hey, have fun twisting my words trying to show something that isn’t true. I’m sure it’ll make you feel better. You used a dehumanizing label – ‘thug’-- to describe a dead black kid who did nothing violent. You had no dehumanizing label for Dunn, his killer, and an attempted murderer (and also a murderer, according to the jury). You’re human. It’s possible that this was totally unconscious. If you think there’s nothing strange at all about only using a dehumanizing label for the dead, non-violent kid, then I think you’re missing a chance for self-improvement. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/704 "2015-01-13T21:01:39Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > If you think “thug” is worse than “attempted murderer”, then good for you. I doubt most people would agree, and when I used those particular words I certainly didn’t mean that. > > But hey, have fun twisting my words trying to show something that isn’t true. I’m sure it’ll make you feel better. Speaking of twisting words … I’m just trying to suss out why you reflexively go for thug in some cases and not in others. The questions I’m asking are an attempt to clarify the circumstances in which you will use that term, and those in which you won’t. Given your description of what you consider a thug, it doesn’t seem to fit in Davis’ case. Unless you can cite that law outlawing playing loud music in your car in the location of the shooting. Short of that, he was not a criminal, and therefore, according to your description cannot be considered a thug. You seem resistant to this line of reasoning, to the point of ignoring it so far. Why? If this is making you uncomfortable to think about, that’s understandable. But not answering questions about your views is not going to help change anyone’s views regarding your motivations. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/705 "2015-01-13T21:04:52Z")
I’ve explained why I use it about Davis but not Dunn. Perhaps if you could show me examples of Dunn’s petty, antisocial criminal behaviour I’d use it of him. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/706 "2015-01-13T21:10:12Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I’ve explained why I use it about Davis but not Dunn. Perhaps if you could show me examples of Dunn’s petty, antisocial criminal behaviour I’d use it of him. Shooting at kids that are running away is criminal and antisocial. Thugs can only be petty? Thugs can’t commit serious crimes? You are not making any sense with your designations here. You really seem to need this thug label to apply only to Davis in this situation. Why? Also, you have not shown Davis to have committed a crime, so you can’t consider him a criminal, therefore, according to your own definition he CANNOT be a thug. Cite that he committed a crime in the location this occurred or you should stop referring to him as a thug. Its your definition we’re using here remember. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/707 "2015-01-13T21:25:35Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > You really seem to need this thug label to apply only to Davis in this situation. Why? \*Need \*it to? Not really, I just think he’s the only one it applies to. Rather than, say, Dunn, his wife, or Davis’ companions. You are trying to make more of it than there is, for some reason. Actually, I know the reason well. You want to show that I’m racist, and thereby discredit all my arguments. Which is ridiculous, as firstly I’m not, and secondly even if I were, it would not discredit any of my arguments, just my character. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/708 "2015-01-13T22:06:55Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > \*Need \*it to? Not really, I just think he’s the only one it applies to. Rather than, say, Dunn, his wife, or Davis’ companions. You are trying to make more of it than there is, for some reason. > > Actually, I know the reason well. You want to show that I’m racist, and thereby discredit all my arguments. Which is ridiculous, as firstly I’m not, and secondly even if I were, it would not discredit any of my arguments, just my character. All you are doing is denying and refusing to answer any questions about your views. Not very convincing. Try actually replying to what I post. Continuing denial and avoidance isn’t going to get you anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/709 "2015-01-13T22:12:55Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > It is, at least in some places, if it’s loud enough to disturb others. Loud enough to shake a nearby vehicle definitely qualifies. Innocent until proven guilty, right? A concept you care so much about when it’s a white man? So where is Dunn’s conviction so that you can claim he committed a crime? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/710 "2015-01-13T22:22:20Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Innocent until proven guilty, right? A concept you care so much about when it’s a white man? So where is Dunn’s conviction so that you can claim he committed a crime? Davis, damn it. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/711 "2015-01-13T22:29:48Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Innocent until proven guilty, right? A concept you care so much about when it’s a white man? So where is Dunn’s conviction so that you can claim he committed a crime? > [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Davis, damn it. When he’s being charged with a crime, let me know. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/712 "2015-01-13T22:30:12Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I’ve explained why I use it about Davis but not Dunn. Perhaps if you could show me examples of Dunn’s petty, antisocial criminal behaviour I’d use it of him. Why? You haven’t shown any examples of Davis’s petty, antisocial criminal behavior. You’ve failed to prove that playing loud music at a gas station was against the law in that jurisdiction. But we know of Dunn’s antisocial criminal behavior – shooting at fleeing kids. Then he lied about it – I’d say that’s pretty petty. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/713 "2015-01-13T22:31:25Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > \*Need \*it to? Not really, I just think he’s the only one it applies to. Rather than, say, Dunn, his wife, or Davis’ companions. You are trying to make more of it than there is, for some reason. > > Actually, I know the reason well. You want to show that I’m racist, and thereby discredit all my arguments. Which is ridiculous, as firstly I’m not, and secondly even if I were, it would not discredit any of my arguments, just my character. No, we want to get the bottom of the very, very odd insistence that the totally non-violent and non-criminal dead kid is a “thug” but the criminal attempted (at the very least) murderer and liar Dunn is not. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/714 "2015-01-13T22:33:16Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > When he’s being charged with a crime, let me know. He \*wasn’t \*charged with a crime, you idiot. That’s the point. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/715 "2015-01-13T22:33:54Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > When he’s being charged with a crime, let me know. So why did you claim he behaved in a criminal manner? What crime did he commit? Where is the cite that anything he did was a crime in that jurisdiction? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/716 "2015-01-13T22:35:30Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > even if I were, it would not discredit any of my arguments, just my character. I doubt your character could be any more discredited. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/717 "2015-01-13T22:42:09Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > He \*wasn’t \*charged with a crime, you idiot. That’s the point. No shit. When he is, get back to me and we can discuss his defence. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/718 "2015-01-13T22:50:17Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > No shit. When he is, get back to me and we can discuss his defence. Then why are you asserting that he behaved in a criminal manner? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/719 "2015-01-13T22:50:47Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > No shit. When he is, get back to me and we can discuss his defence. We don’t need to discuss his defense, because under the rule of law he’s innocent until proven guilty. So no charge = innocent. Remember? This is something you care a lot about when we’re discussing white people. Oh wait, Davis was black. Ignore that ‘innocent until proven guilty’ stuff… ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/720 "2015-01-13T22:56:44Z")
You really don’t have a clue, do you? Keep pretending I’m racist rather than addressing my actual arguments, 'm sure it’ll make you feel better. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480.md?page=35) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480.md?page=37)