# George Zimmerman - In the news again **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 31, 2014, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480 "2014-07-31T13:26:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 40
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2015, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/781 "2015-01-14T15:56:02Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Congratulations, you found one. She’s not even some of his best friends, either. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2015, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/782 "2015-01-14T15:57:19Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > “The researchers found that when white shooters kill black victims, 34% of the resulting homicides are deemed justifiable, while only 3.3% of deaths are ruled justifiable when the shooter is black and the victim is white” [Cite](http://everytown.org/documents/2014/10/shoot-first.pdf) I bet they were all thugs though. ---
**Author:** ![susanlinda823](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@susanlinda823](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susanlinda823)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2015, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/783 "2015-01-14T15:59:09Z")
Why do they keep posting only his “Innocent” stuff? Sorry. But he clearly killed that kid. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2015, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/784 "2015-01-14T16:01:45Z")
…continued > [@Steophan](#): > > No, the principle that people should be allowed to defend themselves _saves_ lives. “Our results indicate that Stand Your Ground laws are associated with a significant increase in the number of homicides among whites, especially white males. According to our estimates, between 28 and 33 additional white males are killed each month as a result of these laws.” [Cite](http://www.nber.org/papers/w18187.pdf) As a note, this paper found that homicides of blacks didn’t increase, so that’s good I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2015, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/785 "2015-01-14T16:31:02Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > …continued > > “Our results indicate that Stand Your Ground laws are associated with a significant increase in the number of homicides among whites, especially white males. According to our estimates, between 28 and 33 additional white males are killed each month as a result of these laws.” [Cite](http://www.nber.org/papers/w18187.pdf) As a note, this paper found that homicides of blacks didn’t increase, so that’s good I guess. Oh no, white people are being killed! In that case… I continue to fully support the laws that allow them to be killed in self defence. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2015, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/786 "2015-01-14T16:32:26Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Congratulations, you found one. You asked me for one, I found one, I proved you wrong. Again. Keep being wrong if you like, it’s obvious what you’re doing. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2015, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/787 "2015-01-14T16:34:37Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Oh no, white people are being killed! In that case… I continue to fully support the laws that allow them to be killed in self defence. Yeah, no amount of other people’s lives are too much of a price for you to pay, you brave man. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2015, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/788 "2015-01-14T16:40:13Z")
Question asked - > [@Velocity](#): > > What has he said that was racist? Question answered - > [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Innocent kid who gets brutally murdered = \*\*Steophan \*\*calls him a thug. > Violent man who murders a kid, tries to kill several others, was abusive to his ex-wives, planned the contract killing of someone who upset him earlier, is sentenced to life in prison = \*\*Steophan \*\*thinks he was unjustly imprisoned. > > Guess the races of the people involved. > > Now do this with every discussion he’s ever been involved in on this board. > > Prior to being called out on it on this thread, Steophan had never discussed any black person on this board without calling him a thug. Prior to being called out on it in this thread, \*\*Steophan \*\*had never called a white person a thug. > > For a certain class of person “thug” is code for “nigger”. If you’re only calling black people thugs, you’re that class of person. See also “urban”. Hahahaha. Dear **Evil Economist** , it’s YOUR interpretation (strawman alert!!! strawman alert!!!) that “thug” is code for “nigger”. Maybe you should stop doing that before you get your feelings hurt? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2015, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/789 "2015-01-14T17:10:56Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Hahahaha. Dear **Evil Economist** , it’s YOUR interpretation (strawman alert!!! strawman alert!!!) that “thug” is code for “nigger”. Maybe you should stop doing that before you get your feelings hurt? [Richard Sherman](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/22/richard-sherman-thug-n-word-press-conference_n_4646871.html): Thug Is Now ‘The Accepted Way Of Calling Somebody The N-Word’ [thug has quietly](http://time.com/2369/richard-sherman-thug-n-word/) been recruited as the salty but suitable way of saying, “There one of them goes again.” [Bill Maher agrees](http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollywood/2014/01/26/bill-maher-agrees-thug-new-n-word/)that “thug” is the new “N-word.” [the word “thug”](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/01/27/richard-sherman-is-right-thug-is-the-new-n-world.html) has become an “accepted way of calling somebody the N-word.” You saw it, for instance, during the Trayvon Martin controversy, where defenders of the shooter, George Zimmerman, were quick to label Martin a “dangerous thug” [Thug](http://www.jacksonfreepress.com/news/2014/feb/19/thug-new-n-word/)is not just being thrown around in a few instances, it is the new politically correct code word whites use to n\*ggerize blacks, or put them in their place. [Charles Barkely](http://mrconservative.com/2014/01/31158-charles-barkely-every-black-person-knows-thug-means-n-word/): “Every Black Person Knows ‘Thug’ Means N-Word” ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2015, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/790 "2015-01-14T17:53:22Z")
Don’t bother trying to teach that pig to sing, **EE**. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2015, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/791 "2015-01-14T18:25:30Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > [Richard Sherman](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/22/richard-sherman-thug-n-word-press-conference_n_4646871.html): Thug Is Now ‘The Accepted Way Of Calling Somebody The N-Word’ > > [thug has quietly](http://time.com/2369/richard-sherman-thug-n-word/) been recruited as the salty but suitable way of saying, “There one of them goes again.” > > [Bill Maher agrees](http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollywood/2014/01/26/bill-maher-agrees-thug-new-n-word/)that “thug” is the new “N-word.” > > [the word “thug”](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/01/27/richard-sherman-is-right-thug-is-the-new-n-world.html) has become an “accepted way of calling somebody the N-word.” You saw it, for instance, during the Trayvon Martin controversy, where defenders of the shooter, George Zimmerman, were quick to label Martin a “dangerous thug” > > [Thug](http://www.jacksonfreepress.com/news/2014/feb/19/thug-new-n-word/)is not just being thrown around in a few instances, it is the new politically correct code word whites use to n\*ggerize blacks, or put them in their place. > > [Charles Barkely](http://mrconservative.com/2014/01/31158-charles-barkely-every-black-person-knows-thug-means-n-word/): “Every Black Person Knows ‘Thug’ Means N-Word” Gosh, thanks for that update. I had no idea that some people had chosen to redefine the definition of the word “thug”. Do you think it would be OK if I chose not to accept the horseshit belief of a Bill Maher-type? thug - › a man who acts violently, esp. a criminal: Some thugs smashed his windows. > **[thug](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/thug)** > > 1. a man who acts violently, especially to commit a crime: 2. a man who acts… ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2015, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/792 "2015-01-14T18:38:21Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Gosh, thanks for that update. I had no idea that some people had chosen to redefine the definition of the word “thug”. Do you think it would be OK if I chose not to accept the horseshit belief of a Bill Maher-type? > > thug - > › a man who acts violently, esp. a criminal: > > Some thugs smashed his windows. > > [THUG | English meaning - Cambridge Dictionary](http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/american-english/thug) Ok great, can you take this up with **Steophan** then? He keeps insisting that Davis was a thug, even though he was not violent and committed no crime, but he will not describe Dunn as a thug even though he is clearly the violent criminal in the situation. But there’s nothing racist about that I’m sure. By the way, language changes over time. Words take on new meaning, new connotations, and new usage all of the time. You can accept that and adjust or you can continue using the term in a way that makes you look racist to increasingly large portions of the population. I guess if you don’t care being viewed as a racist, then by all means carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2015, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/793 "2015-01-14T19:00:01Z")
So Stephan, Suppose that Davis actually did have a shotgun in the car, and when Dunn came up to the window he blew Dunn’s face off, claiming that he thought he saw Dunn reaching for a gun. I assume that you would say that Davis was not gulity of murder, after all he felt threatened (given what actually happened it turns out that his concern would have been justified.) But just for fun let’s assume that Dunn was unarmed and was just going to yell at Davis for having his music too loud, and Davis actually blew Dunn away because Davis was a thug. Based on your previous posts I assume that this wouldn’t change anything and you would still find Davis innocent, after all there is no evidence that he didn’t think that Dunn was going for a gun. In that case is there any reason for every altercation to lead to a wild west quick draw showdown, since anyone you argue with could be justified in shooting you while claiming self defense, and it’s better to shoot first than end up dead. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2015, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/794 "2015-01-14T19:00:41Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I had no idea that some people had chosen to redefine the definition of the word “thug”. It’s not any of those cited’s choice; it’s a description of how the word is used. Not exclusively, to be sure. > [@doorhinge](#): > > thug - > › a man who acts violently, esp. a criminal… Yeah… you realize this is not in contradiction with the racist usage? The _point_ of the racist usage is to suggest that black people tend to be criminals, and criminals tend to be black people. Any examples of black people who are clearly non-thuggish correspond precisely with those who, in another idiom, would be called “black, not a nigger.” ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2015, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/795 "2015-01-14T19:15:52Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Ok great, can you take this up with **Steophan** then? He keeps insisting that Davis was a thug, even though he was not violent and committed no crime, but he will not describe Dunn as a thug even though he is clearly the violent criminal in the situation. > > But there’s nothing racist about that I’m sure. > > By the way, language changes over time. Words take on new meaning, new connotations, and new usage all of the time. You can accept that and adjust or you can continue using the term in a way that makes you look racist to increasingly large portions of the population. **I guess if you don’t care being viewed as a racist, then by all means carry on**. (Bold and underlined added) **Steophan** chose to call Davis a thug. It’s a free country. You object to **Steophan** ’s choice of words. It’s still a free country. Hahahaha. Your impotent attempt to threaten me with some vague possibility of slander is hysterical. Are you actually suggesting that any asshole who choses to changed the defined meaning of a word must then be publically accepted as the new Lord High Wordsmith of Public Speaking, is absurd. I assume that those definition-changing people are confused, or didn’t know the actual meaning of the word before they chose to invent a new one. It’s difficult for two people to have a conversation if one, or both, side(s) are re-inventing the language during the conversation. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2015, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/796 "2015-01-14T19:21:00Z")
Meanwhile a prescient spot on description of Zimmerman and Dunn, that somehow went through a time warp and came out 15 years before the Martin shooting. [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nt6kKhlX8vU) ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2015, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/797 "2015-01-14T19:21:55Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (Bold and underlined added) > > **Steophan** chose to call Davis a thug. It’s a free country. You object to **Steophan** ’s choice of words. It’s still a free country. > Hahahaha. Your impotent attempt to threaten me with some vague possibility of slander is hysterical. Are you actually suggesting that any asshole who choses to changed the defined meaning of a word must then be publically accepted as the new Lord High Wordsmith of Public Speaking, is absurd. > > I assume that those definition-changing people are confused, or didn’t know the actual meaning of the word before they chose to invent a new one. > > It’s difficult for two people to have a conversation if one, or both, side(s) are re-inventing the language during the conversation. Are you insane? Do some research on how language changes over time. There is an entire field of study on this subject for crying out loud. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistics#Historical\_linguistics](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistics#Historical_linguistics) Also, I’m glad you brought up the free country point because I never said that you or **Steophan** can’t use the word thug. I just said people are going to think you are a racist if you keep using it in the way he and presumably you do, since you are defending his usage for him right now. Free country works both ways. You are free to use whatever words you wish, and I am free to think of you two as racists depending on which words you choose and how you choose to use them. Isn’t freedom great? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2015, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/798 "2015-01-14T19:29:30Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > thug - > › a man who acts violently, esp. a criminal: > > Some thugs smashed his windows. > > [THUG | English meaning - Cambridge Dictionary](http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/american-english/thug) Fox news called Richard Sherman a thug for talking excitedly to a reporter after winning a football game. Was that a violent crime? On the same day as Fox News called Richard Sherman a thug, they reported on Justin Bieber’s arrest. He was a criminal, did Fox News call him a thug? \*\*Steophan \*\*called Davis a thug for being shot to death. Was he a violent criminal? Dunn murdered a kid, and tried to kill several others. Was that a violent crime? Did \*\*Steophan \*\*call him a thug? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2015, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/799 "2015-01-14T19:34:34Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > On the same day as Fox News called Richard Sherman a thug, they reported on Justin Bieber’s arrest. He was a criminal, did Fox News call him a thug? I would hope so. He’s a perfect example of the sort of person I’m talking about, an entitled little shit who doesn’t give a damn that his petty crimes and antisocial activities make things unpleasant for those around them. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2015, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/800 "2015-01-14T19:35:49Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (Bold and underlined added) > > **Steophan** chose to call Davis a thug. It’s a free country. You object to **Steophan** ’s choice of words. It’s still a free country. What does a free country have to do with this conversation? He’s free to use a dehumanizing label that implies violence on a non-violent dead kid, and we’re free to criticize him for it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480.md?page=39) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480.md?page=41)