# Georgia governor signs strictest abortion bill in nation **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 8, 2019, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659 "2019-05-08T09:49:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2019, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/281 "2019-05-11T18:52:03Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Which post are you referring to, HD? I recall linking to a story about an Iowa woman who fell down stairs and was charged with attempted feticide. I might have included another link/example but can’t recall it at the moment. You’re right. I mixed up your story and the one cited by HMS Irruncible in the preceding post. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2019, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/282 "2019-05-11T18:53:46Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > We did? When? I missed it. I’m not surprised that you did. I’d invite you to go back and read the thread again. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2019, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/283 "2019-05-11T18:57:52Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Isn’t the State, by permitting this abortion under the new statute depriving the child of a right to life without due process? Whatever process is due, there is no process, so the law seems to violate the Georgia Constitution. This whole thing rests on “life” beginning at conception. Solve that problem and you have your answer. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2019, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/284 "2019-05-11T18:59:01Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m not surprised that you did. I’d invite you to go back and read the thread again. I am sure you can point me to it. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2019, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/285 "2019-05-11T20:01:59Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > What if a lesbian gets pregnant by rape? Should she be forced to have the baby and then forced to give it up because some people believe gay parenting is child abuse. Amazingly, these same people who say “A child needs a mother and a father” support forcing single women to have babies. > > I wish every women considering abortion would have the baby and give it to a same-sex couple. That would certainly make some of the anti-aborts heads spin. What about this law makes gay adoption any more or less good or bad or will increase or decrease praise or criticism of gays adopting children? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2019, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/286 "2019-05-11T20:05:55Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > What about this law makes gay adoption any more or less good or bad or will increase or decrease praise or criticism of gays adopting children? The new Georgia law has zero to do with adoption. It may well affect adoption though. Is Georgia cool with same sex couples adopting? (really asking…I do not know) ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2019, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/287 "2019-05-11T20:32:52Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > The new Georgia law has zero to do with adoption. > > It may well affect adoption though. Is Georgia cool with same sex couples adopting? (really asking…I do not know) That’s my point: the law has nothing to do with adoption so I’m not sure why it was brought up. AFAIK, every state allows gay adoption and after Obergefell, they all probably must allow it. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2019, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/288 "2019-05-11T20:47:15Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > That’s my point: the law has nothing to do with adoption so I’m not sure why it was brought up. AFAIK, every state allows gay adoption and after Obergefell, they all probably must allow it. Even if adoption was 100% certain at the end you are still asking someone to carry something for nine months with all the medical uncertainties and even life threatening issue that entails. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2019, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/289 "2019-05-11T21:05:23Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Even if adoption was 100% certain at the end you are still asking someone to carry something for nine months with all the medical uncertainties and even life threatening issue that entails. I don’t disagree, but what does that have to do with the Georgia law and whether gay people can adopt? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2019, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/290 "2019-05-11T21:19:07Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I don’t disagree, but what does that have to do with the Georgia law and whether gay people can adopt? What it has to do with the Georgia law is forcing a woman to carry a pregnancy for nine months. It has nothing to do with adoption. Why are you even asking? Adoption has nothing to do with this thread. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2019, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/291 "2019-05-11T22:51:11Z")
A nation that so profoundly respects personal body autonomy as to not intervene if Doug won’t give a kidney to Bob, without which he will die, should respect a women’s body autonomy sufficiently to not intervene should she choose to not allow some cells to fully form into a person. The only reason not to is straight up misogyny in my mind. Taking a life and denying the necessities of life to someone, are both heinous crimes under the law. If body autonomy exempts one from interference from the state it should also exempt the other. If, however there is a different standard of body autonomy for women that’s misogyny . ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2019, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/292 "2019-05-11T23:49:37Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > What it has to do with the Georgia law is forcing a woman to carry a pregnancy for nine months. > > It has nothing to do with adoption. Why are you even asking? Adoption has nothing to do with this thread. I was responding to the post that talked about how women should have same sex couples adopt their children. We’ve done the abortion debate a million times; I was just chiming in to respond to some of the more outrageous things that the Slate article said that the abortion law would do like punish abortions with the death penalty and other nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2019, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/293 "2019-05-12T01:17:55Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You’re right. I mixed up your story and the one cited by HMS Irruncible in the preceding post. All good, just making sure I haven’t gone senile yet. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2019, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/294 "2019-05-12T03:57:27Z")
Well, I guess adoption is _slightly_ relevant, in the sense that if an abortion ban in Georgia “gifted” that state with, say, 10000 extra babies per year, wouldn’t the number of people (or if you prefer, only good hetero white Christian couples) currently seeking to adopt quickly be satisfied? What do you do two or three years from now? Export? Build more orphanages? Maybe the corporations that currently run private prisons could get a piece of this action. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2019, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/295 "2019-05-12T04:01:32Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > No, it’s 20 weeks. Here’s t[he link](http://www.legis.ga.gov/Legislation/en-US/display/20192020/HB/481) to the full text of the law. No paywall. Click on “Open in new window.” I wasn’t talking about the law. I was asking about the person that another poster claimed that Georgia tried to prosecute. How many weeks? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2019, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/296 "2019-05-12T04:40:46Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > I wasn’t talking about the law. I was asking about the person that another poster claimed that Georgia tried to prosecute. How many weeks? The article said 5 1/2 months. Of course every month has a varying number of days and the article probably rounded, but the woman in question took abortifacients that she acquired illegally off the internet. The child was then born alive and subsequently died. The born alive part is important. From ye olde English common law that is still applied in the United States, apart from any statute, when a child is “born alive” they are considered a person. And in this case the woman committed a crime which caused that person’s death. This is a similar rationale regarding why assaults on pregnant women who cause the death of a fetus “born alive” are prosecuted for murder (others are prosecuted by statute). We can debate whether the woman should have been prosecuted under this old doctrine, but it was not the result of any crazy Georgia thing, but the decision of a single prosecutor. The same thing could happen in New York or California if a prosecutor decided to do so. ETA: I’ve posted this in other threads, but this is a case from West Virginia where a woman who was 37 weeks pregnant injected herself with meth, the baby was born and subsequently died. She was charged with a state law variety of homicide and convicted. The Supreme Court reversed 3-2 holding that the unborn child was not a “child” under state law: [http://www.courtswv.gov/supreme-court/docs/spring2016/15-0021.pdf](http://www.courtswv.gov/supreme-court/docs/spring2016/15-0021.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2019, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/297 "2019-05-12T04:46:49Z")
Missed the edit window: The dissenting opinion in that case [http://www.courtswv.gov/supreme-court/docs/spring2016/15-0021d-loughry.pdf](http://www.courtswv.gov/supreme-court/docs/spring2016/15-0021d-loughry.pdf) Both a very good read and show the policy implications and the difficulty in applying the law. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2019, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/298 "2019-05-12T04:51:05Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > The article said 5 1/2 months. Of course every month has a varying number of days and the article probably rounded, but the woman in question took abortifacients that she acquired illegally off the internet. Ok, no matter how one counts days or weeks, 5 1/2 months is more than 20 weeks. So more likely than not, the fetus WAS viable. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2019, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/299 "2019-05-12T12:35:33Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Ok, no matter how one counts days or weeks, 5 1/2 months is more than 20 weeks. So more likely than not, the fetus WAS viable. Yes, and it wasn’t just a “fetus” at the point that it was born alive, but a full-on “baby” and person. ---
**Author:** ![Shagunathor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@Shagunathor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagunathor)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/300 "2019-05-13T03:42:20Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Ok, no matter how one counts days or weeks, 5 1/2 months is more than 20 weeks. So more likely than not, the fetus WAS viable. 5 1/2 months is 22 weeks. As stated above, viability stats at that age are 2-15%, according to the NIH. In what world is 15% more likely than not? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659.md?page=16)