# Georgia governor signs strictest abortion bill in nation **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 8, 2019, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659 "2019-05-08T09:49:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Boycott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boycott/32/6741_2.png) [@Boycott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boycott)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/341 "2019-05-17T00:08:36Z")
I agree with this former Georgia governor > [@](#): > > “I never have believed that Jesus Christ would approve of abortions and that was one of the problems I had when I was president having to uphold Roe v. Wade and I did everything I could to minimize the need for abortions. I made it easy to adopt children for instance who were unwanted and also initiated the program called Women and Infant Children or WIC program that’s still in existence now. But except for the times when a mother’s life is in danger or when a pregnancy is caused by rape or incest I would certainly not or never have approved of any abortions,” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/342 "2019-05-17T00:31:44Z")
> [@](#): > > “I never have believed that Jesus Christ would approve of abortions” Never mind whether he’d _approve_; what would he say about _forgiveness?_ And about, if you will, the relative merits of “judging” and “judging not”? And so on? ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/343 "2019-05-17T04:10:31Z")
I don’t care if you approve. What I’m after is the autonomy to make my own decision about my own body. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/344 "2019-05-17T13:42:05Z")
If a man rapes an 11 year old girl and gets her pregnant, he’ll serve less prison time than the doctor who performs the illegal abortion to save that child’s life. This is what American anti-abortion “justice” has boiled down to. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/345 "2019-05-17T13:56:05Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > most people think the only question is Roberts , the other 4 will very likely OK these laws. Roberts is now considered to be a semi-swing vote now. He upheld Obamacare . I don’t know what Kavanaugh’s published opinions are wrt a abortion, but to date, he has been a mild surprise in a good way. I’m not delusional: I’m sure he has lingering bitterness toward Senate Dems over his confirmation hearings but I think he might surprise us a little on some of the more outrageous state laws. The problem with Georgia’s law is that it asserts that a fetus is a person. I have no problem believing that an idiot like Clarence Thomas would buy the idea that a fetus is a natural born person, but I think even some of the other arch-conservatives might get limp defending that one. I could be wrong, though. I suspect that what WILL happen is that the conservative court, which will probably only get more conservative after Ginsburg leaves, will allow a lot of different kinds of state-issued restrictions, which effectively make abortion so complicated that it becomes de facto illegal in anti-abortion states. The states’ rights angle seems to be the safest one. Having said that, I find it interesting that for as much as we talk about it here, apparently 55% of the American public are totally fine with an abortion ban at six weeks, which I find shocking. But perhaps I shouldn’t really be that shocked considering how authoritarian and anti-science our culture has become. That is why I have pointed out on more than one occasion, it’s not just a few bad apples acting badly; our culture itself is identifying more and more with authoritarianism. When an overwhelming majority of the people have a positive view of the military and police forces, and a downright rotten view of the press and the people they elect to office, that’s the perfect incubator for authoritarianism. And as we might expect, people are always more willing to regulate the behaviors of other people much more so than they are willing to submit to being regulated. Get used to it, I’m afraid. ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/346 "2019-05-17T13:58:44Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > This is what American anti-abortion “justice” has boiled down to. And that is completely, utterly fucked up. I guess a child doesn’t count as an “innocent life” anymore once she’s been raped? ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/347 "2019-05-17T15:06:29Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > If a man rapes an 11 year old girl and gets her pregnant, he’ll serve less prison time than the doctor who performs the illegal abortion to save that child’s life. > > This is what American anti-abortion “justice” has boiled down to. There are no states with a law that would criminalize abortions done to save a mother’s life. Any doctor who did an abortion to save a life would not even be arrested. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/348 "2019-05-17T15:10:46Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > There are no states with a law that would criminalize abortions done to save a mother’s life. Any doctor who did an abortion to save a life would not even be arrested. Who gets to decide if the abortion is necessary? Do you think an 11 year old child would automatically get a pass under Alabama law? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/349 "2019-05-17T15:23:10Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Who gets to decide if the abortion is necessary? Do you think an 11 year old child would automatically get a pass under Alabama law? In Georgia the law says “A physician determines, in reasonable medical judgment, that a medical emergency exists.” I’m not familiar enough with the text of Alabama’s law. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/350 "2019-05-17T15:29:39Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > In Georgia the law says “A physician determines, in reasonable medical judgment, that a medical emergency exists.” I’m not familiar enough with the text of Alabama’s law. But who judges whether the doctor made a “reasonable medical judgment”? His peers? A panel of politicians that oppose abortions? A panel of doctors appointed by politicians that oppose abortions? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/351 "2019-05-17T15:38:19Z")
Here is the $64,000 Question: Under the law just created in Georgia, where can one go to get an abortion in Georgia? Same question for Alabama. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/352 "2019-05-17T16:11:20Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > But who judges whether the doctor made a “reasonable medical judgment”? > His peers? > A panel of politicians that oppose abortions? > A panel of doctors appointed by politicians that oppose abortions? AFAICT, the law doesn’t set up a panel of politicians, or a panel of doctors appointed by politicians, to make any such judgement. I suppose, at some level, a prosecutor is going to make a determination. If the prosecutor has reason to believe that the abortion was performed absent a medical emergency, he can charge the doctor with violating the law. If a judge / grand jury doesn’t throw out the charges, then a jury would be selected, they’d hear arguments from the prosecutor, presumably including some expert witnesses (probably doctors themselves), and the doctor’s defense attorney, again presumably including some doctors as expert witnesses, and then they’d deliberate and reach a determination on the doctor’s guilt. So, to answer your question, ultimately it could / would be a jury of his peers. IANAL, so I probably skipped a step or two in there, but I’m pretty sure I got the final answer right. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/353 "2019-05-17T16:20:19Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > So, to answer your question, ultimately it could / would be a jury of his peers. IANAL, so I probably skipped a step or two in there, but I’m pretty sure I got the final answer right. Your answer started with “I suppose…”, so excuse me if I don’t find it satisfactory. Also, when the new law takes affect, will there still be places open that will actually perform abortions, or will the effect be the same as if all abortions are banned any way? If it happens to be that prosecutors will decide if an abortion is necessary or not, then I can reasonably make the case that this will be intimidation enough for the few abortion providers left to close shop. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/354 "2019-05-17T16:33:20Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Your answer started with “I suppose…”, so excuse me if I don’t find it satisfactory. … _shrug_ I imagine there are a great many things about this situation you don’t find satisfactory. That’s not really relevant to, well … anything. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > … Also, when the new law takes affect, will there still be places open that will actually perform abortions, or will the effect be the same as if all abortions are banned any way? If it happens to be that prosecutors will decide if an abortion is necessary or not, then I can reasonably make the case that this will be intimidation enough for the few abortion providers left to close shop. The Georgia law doesn’t, AFAICT, order any abortion centers to close down. If it makes you feel better, “when the new law takes affect” is probably going to be years from now, after a SCOTUS hearing on the law, if ever. I don’t know what you mean by “I can reasonably make the case”. Who would you be making the case to? The Georgia Legislature? That ship has sailed. SCOTUS? Posters here at the SDMB? I don’t think it’s a reasonable view of “intimidation”. Lots of people in lots of industries have to abide by the laws governing their industry or they face criminal / civil penalties. That’s not new, or unique to abortion doctors. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/355 "2019-05-17T16:36:51Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > _shrug_ I imagine there are a great many things about this situation you don’t find satisfactory. That’s not really relevant to, well … anything. > The Georgia law doesn’t, AFAICT, order any abortion centers to close down. I never claimed it did, so maybe you should quote what I actually say from now on instead of responding to things that weren’t even implied. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/356 "2019-05-17T16:44:25Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > … maybe you should quote what I actually say from now on … I’ve been quoting you. Scroll up and you (and everyone else) can see that. If you can’t see how “when the new law takes affect, will there still be places open that will actually perform abortions” might be read as an attempt to imply that the law is forcing abortion centers to close, I don’t know what else to tell you. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/357 "2019-05-17T17:08:13Z")
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution [just published a story](https://www.ajc.com/news/local/who-could-prosecuted-under-georgia-heartbeat-law/sjmrBSuG3ZT4eM9kkAKPuL/) about a lot of the problems and ambiguities with this new law. Apparently it isn’t so much who can’t be charged with murder, but who _will_ be, and all the reassurances in the world aren’t worth shit when prosecutors that are elected by the populace try to curry favor with said populace. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/358 "2019-05-17T23:16:55Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > AFAICT, the law doesn’t set up a panel of politicians, or a panel of doctors appointed by politicians, to make any such judgement. I suppose, at some level, a prosecutor is going to make a determination. If the prosecutor has reason to believe that the abortion was performed absent a medical emergency, he can charge the doctor with violating the law. If a judge / grand jury doesn’t throw out the charges, then a jury would be selected, they’d hear arguments from the prosecutor, presumably including some expert witnesses (probably doctors themselves), and the doctor’s defense attorney, again presumably including some doctors as expert witnesses, and then they’d deliberate and reach a determination on the doctor’s guilt. So, to answer your question, ultimately it could / would be a jury of his peers. IANAL, so I probably skipped a step or two in there, but I’m pretty sure I got the final answer right. So in other words, the mere act of performing the action would subject the doctor to an expensive, stressful, and time-consuming legal suit. Oh look, no doctor steps forward to perform the surgery, and the child dies. The notion that abortion clinics would remain open is a joke. This would cut off supply. Of doctors, that is, not coat hangers. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2019, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/359 "2019-05-18T14:05:40Z")
I once talked to a rah-rah Catholic woman where the mother or a 9 year old child pregnant with twins and the doctor who performed the abortion on this 9 year old child pregnant with twins were excommunicated from the Catholic church (but not the stepfather who got this nine year old child pregnant with twins.) When I said "She would have died if she carried the pregnancy to term, the rah-rah shot back “You don’t know that.” So how does one determine if an abortion saves the mother’s life? ---
**Author:** ![DummyGladHands](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/49beb7/32.png) [@DummyGladHands](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DummyGladHands)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2019, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/360 "2019-05-18T14:23:29Z")
In the early 70’s, when there were a lot of stupid abortion laws, a woman was encourage to say and sign a paper to the effect that she would be a danger to herself and her unborn child if she did not have an abortion. Thus, tacitly threatening suicide. I know this first hand as I signed that paper. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659.md?page=19)