# Georgia governor signs strictest abortion bill in nation **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 8, 2019, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659 "2019-05-08T09:49:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/461 "2019-05-21T14:15:08Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > :eek: Do you really think this kind of rhetoric is wise? You are more or less taunting hardcore pro-lifers for not really having the courage of their convictions, which cashes out as basically egging on extremism. Essentially: “If you really meant what you’re saying, you guys would be bombing a LOT more abortion clinics.” I don’t think this is helpful or prudent. Only that that rhetoric is the one many pro-lifers are going for, day in and day out. Indeed, it is not prudent, but that is what many pro-lifers are going for. That extremism is what also give us complete and total lies such as accusing Planned Parenthood of selling baby parts and ugly conservatives also lying about what is the actual position of democrats regarding late term abortion. I think that you are spectacularly missing the point, \*\*RTFirefly \*\*and others are actually pointing at that reckless position of the extremists (that are running the Republican ship now) to point out that indeed, that is a dumb and dangerous position to have; and making laws to appease the fringe of the fringe is not a good idea indeed. And in passing, it is good to also point that most pro-lifers do indeed think that that extreme idea is really not a good one to follow; of course, then it follows that they should had dumped the stupid idea of pandering to that extreme fringe a long time ago, but here we are. > [@SlackerInc](#): > > It’s not only about religion. I’m as atheistic as they come, and I consider abortion immoral. I do think it should be legal in the first trimester, but even in the first trimester I would always urge any pregnant woman or girl to carry the baby to term if she could safely do so. > > I don’t know if you are a parent, but when you become one, you lose a lot of the rights you take for granted beforehand. One of the most fundamental is personal autonomy, freedom of movement. Before I became a dad, I could walk out of the house on a whim. Go grab a beer, a bite to eat, or just stroll in the park down the street. Once there was a baby in the house, if I was the only adult at home, just walking off on my own would be a crime–and rightly so. > > But okay, granted: we cannot force unwilling women to grow a blastocyst to an embryo, then a fetus, all the way to birth. Even if I think abortion is immoral, people do have the right to do many immoral things. But she had better fucking take care of it when the growing embryo inside her is still kind of a weird looking evolving lifeform. By the second trimester, that’s a \*baby \*right there, and killing a baby is some coldblooded shit. And of course, [that is what even many pro choicers do think, abortions after the first trimester have less support](https://news.gallup.com/poll/235469/trimesters-key-abortion-views.aspx?g_source=link_NEWSV9&g_medium=TOPIC&g_campaign=item_&g_content=Trimesters%2520Still%2520Key%2520to%2520U.S.%2520Abortion%2520Views) and once again, the usual exceptions should be observed for later abortions. Again, like in many past discussions, it is clear that many conservatives do know how to make issues like this into a bigger wedge than it is and some centrists still fall for the reckless propaganda. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/462 "2019-05-21T14:31:59Z")
> [@Malaclypse\_the\_elder](#): > > Me? I find it beyond tragic that people are using arguments against free choice of the most important person of all, the pregnant woman, is being denied what she wants and/or needs to do by others who base their argument on an imaginary entity. … “the most important person of all” is a value judgement that many do not share. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/463 "2019-05-21T14:46:25Z")
Can half-brothers be forced to be tested as a bone marrow donor to save their brother’s life. Court rules [NO](https://www.nytimes.com/1990/07/30/us/in-marrow-donor-lawsuit-altruism-collides-with-right-to-protect-child.html). ---
**Author:** ![Malaclypse\_the\_elder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Malaclypse\_the\_elder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malaclypse_the_elder)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/464 "2019-05-21T15:24:51Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > “the most important person of all” is a value judgement that many do not share. Well not really. It’s nobodies business but her own. The potential human will not even be a person for many weeks after being disconnected from the woman. So it’s not a value judgement is it? It’s an incontrovertible objective fact. ---
**Author:** ![Malaclypse\_the\_elder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Malaclypse\_the\_elder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malaclypse_the_elder)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/465 "2019-05-21T15:47:29Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > . Snip ---- But she had better fucking take care of it when the growing embryo inside her is still kind of a weird looking evolving lifeform. By the second trimester, that’s a \*baby \*right there, and killing a baby is some coldblooded shit. That depends on the definition of a baby. I believe that before a foetus has been disconnected from the woman who has had what is in effect a parasite for sufficient time as to become capable of surviving without medical intervention then at most it is no more than a potential baby. In this I am far from being alone here in Western Europe which is possibly why we came up with the Groningen Protocol. While not quite a case of “die freigabe der vernichtung lebensunwerten lebens” Groningen is a very valuable option to have available. There is far far too much sentiment where elective termination is concerned and especially from people who have no dog in the fight. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/466 "2019-05-21T16:04:15Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > :eek: Do you really think this kind of rhetoric is wise? You are more or less taunting hardcore pro-lifers for not really having the courage of their convictions, which cashes out as basically egging on extremism. Essentially: “If you really meant what you’re saying, you guys would be bombing a LOT more abortion clinics.” I don’t think this is helpful or prudent. 1. How many hardcore pro-lifers am I taunting with my rhetoric on this board? 2. You’re missing the point. Essentially: “If you really meant what you’re saying, you guys **would have been** bombing a LOT more abortion clinics.” It’s too late to undo nearly a half-century of politicking and protesting while the holocaust rolled on, year after year, decade after decade, million deaths after million deaths. The pro-lifers have already spoken repeatedly - continuously across the decades - with their actions. That behavior is already done, and can’t be undone. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/467 "2019-05-21T16:18:20Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > They don’t check ID or do background checks at the communion rail. :rolleyes: So she can take communion? Wouldn’t that have to mean that she’s not excommunicated? (Plus which, I suspect that particular child generally attended a specific church, and was a member of that particular church community. I doubt they need to do a background check to see who she is.) ---
**Author:** ![Malaclypse\_the\_elder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Malaclypse\_the\_elder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malaclypse_the_elder)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/468 "2019-05-21T16:34:12Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > 1. Snip — > while the holocaust rolled on, year after year, decade after decade, million deaths after million deaths. The pro-lifers have already spoken repeatedly - continuously across the decades - with their actions. That behavior is already done, and can’t be undone. Strikes me that the use of the word Holocaust is singularly inappropriate. The Shoa combined genocide with the murder of sentient human beings whereas the disposal of what are at most potential human beings is an entirely different matter. A type mismatch if ever there was one. Maybe if holocaust was preceded by “a” rather than “the” it would have been a little less inappropriate. A little less - but not by much. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/469 "2019-05-21T18:34:52Z")
> [@Malaclypse\_the\_elder](#): > > Strikes me that the use of the word Holocaust is singularly inappropriate. > > The Shoa combined genocide with the murder of sentient human beings whereas the disposal of what are at most potential human beings is an entirely different matter. A type mismatch if ever there was one. > > Maybe if holocaust was preceded by “a” rather than “the” it would have been a little less inappropriate. > > A little less - but not by much. My apologies, but that’s the word they use. In fact, the new Alabama law begins with a preamble that specifically says that abortion in America has been three times as great a holocaust as _The_ Holocaust, Stalin’s and Mao’s purges, the Cambodian killing fields, and the Rwandan genocide, combined. Yes, they claim that the Holocaust itself is small potatoes compared to abortion. I agree that it is an incredibly offensive claim. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/470 "2019-05-21T18:39:29Z")
> [@Malaclypse\_the\_elder](#): > > Well not really. It’s nobodies business but her own. The potential human will not even be a person for many weeks after being disconnected from the woman. So it’s not a value judgement is it? It’s an incontrovertible objective fact. No, in Georgia it’s a person now, before being ‘disconnected from the woman’, but more alarming than that error: What did you mean by “will not even be a person for many weeks after being disconnected from the woman”? What, precisely, do you think it is in the week or two after birth? Am I reading your post correctly that you don’t think it’s a person? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/471 "2019-05-21T18:47:28Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > So she can take communion? > > Wouldn’t that have to mean that she’s not excommunicated? I suppose they’d say that God takes care of it - that the wine and wafer don’t get transubstantiated into the Body and Blood of Jesus when she consumes them. But that’s just my WAG, and I’ve never been a Roman Catholic. That reminds me, I checked out the Wikipedia page that **D’Anconia** linked to. Procuring an abortion is one of a very short list of sins that earn an automatic excommunication. Murder isn’t on the list. IOW, the Roman Catholic Church doesn’t just regard abortion as murder; it regards it as **worse** than murder. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/472 "2019-05-21T18:47:32Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > No, in Georgia it’s a person now, before being ‘disconnected from the woman’… 1. It has yet to take effect. 2. It has yet to go through the court system. 3. I daresay most of us do not reside in Georgia. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/473 "2019-05-21T18:50:46Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > “the most important person of all” is a value judgement that many do not share. Yes, we’re all too aware that many would reduce the woman to a mere incubator. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/474 "2019-05-21T18:53:40Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Unreconstructed\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/76d3ee/32.png) [@Unreconstructed\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unreconstructed_Man)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/475 "2019-05-21T19:14:47Z")
> [@Slacker Inc](#): > > Do you really think this kind of rhetoric is wise? You are more or less taunting hardcore pro-lifers for not really having the courage of their convictions, which cashes out as basically egging on extremism. Essentially: “If you really meant what you’re saying, you guys would be bombing a LOT more abortion clinics.” I don’t think this is helpful or prudent. But it’s true. If they meant what they said then that’s what we’d expect to see. And not just bombings either. Riots, political assassinations, the works. And even those pro-lifers who didn’t have the stomach for violence should at least be _encouraging_ it, and they shouldn’t be shy about it either. _That’s_ what I’d expect to see _if_ pro-lifers really believed what they _say_ they believed. But we don’t see this. We don’t see _anything like_ this. This implies they don’t _really_ believe what they say they believe. Oh sure, there are violent exceptions here and there. But as a percentage of all the tens of millions of pro-lifers in the country they’re utterly negligible. They don’t even rise to the level of statistical significance. Why _is_ that? Far as I can tell there’s really only one explanation that makes sense: Pro-lifers don’t _really_ believe abortion is murder. They may think it’s bad. They may think it’s very very bad. But they don’t think it’s murder. And if they don’t think abortion is murder then that means they must think fetuses are intrinsically worth less than walking talking human beings. If that’s the case, then they have no right to force _actual_ walking talking human beings to give up control over their own bodies to keep the fetuses alive. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/476 "2019-05-21T19:29:11Z")
> [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > … If that’s the case, then they have no right to force _actual_ walking talking human beings to give up control over their own bodies to keep the fetuses alive. As has been already noted, we as a society force people to give up control over their own bodies in myriad ways and for various reasons. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/477 "2019-05-21T19:32:42Z")
> [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > But it’s true. If they meant what they said then that’s what we’d expect to see. And not just bombings either. Riots, political assassinations, the works. And even those pro-lifers who didn’t have the stomach for violence should at least be _encouraging_ it, and they shouldn’t be shy about it either. _That’s_ what I’d expect to see _if_ pro-lifers really believed what they _say_ they believed. > > But we don’t see this. We don’t see _anything like_ this. This implies they don’t _really_ believe what they say they believe. Oh sure, there are violent exceptions here and there. But as a percentage of all the tens of millions of pro-lifers in the country they’re utterly negligible. They don’t even rise to the level of statistical significance. Why _is_ that? > > Far as I can tell there’s really only one explanation that makes sense: Pro-lifers don’t _really_ believe abortion is murder. They may think it’s bad. They may think it’s very very bad. But they don’t think it’s murder. And if they don’t think abortion is murder then that means they must think fetuses are intrinsically worth less than walking talking human beings. If that’s the case, then they have no right to force _actual_ walking talking human beings to give up control over their own bodies to keep the fetuses alive. How come those who think the death penalty is murder aren’t storming prisons? How come those who think the military is engaged in unjustified violence not storming bases? Is it that they are just liars when they state their opposition? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/478 "2019-05-21T19:41:52Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > How come those who think the death penalty is murder aren’t storming prisons? How come those who think the military is engaged in unjustified violence not storming bases? Is it that they are just liars when they state their opposition? There aren’t hundreds of thousands of people being executed in the US every year; neither is the US military killing hundreds of thousands of people in the US every year. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/479 "2019-05-21T19:54:26Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > … neither is the US military killing hundreds of thousands of people in the US every year. What does “in the US” have to do with anything? You don’t think non-Americans are intrinsically worth less than walking talking Americans, do you? If, let’s say, Code Pink were sincere in their professed beliefs about even half the shit they’ve said about the Iraq War or Israel, shouldn’t they have been storming Fort Bragg or an Israeli embassy or something? Or did they not really believe it? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/480 "2019-05-21T19:57:32Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > What does “in the US” have to do with anything? You don’t think non-Americans are intrinsically worth less than walking talking Americans, do you? No, but most people in America don’t care when Americans kill civilians in far away lands. Especially when those civilians are brown. If they did care, you’d see people storming the bases. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659.md?page=25)