# Georgia governor signs strictest abortion bill in nation **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 8, 2019, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659 "2019-05-08T09:49:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/481 "2019-05-21T20:09:37Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > No, but most people in America don’t care when Americans kill civilians in far away lands. Especially when those civilians are brown. > > If they did care, you’d see people storming the bases. Sure, but my post wasn’t directed at “most people in America”. It was directed at **iiandyiiii** , who likes to pretend he cares just as much about the brown non-Americans as he does about his fellow citizens, except, apparently, when it’s inconvenient for the argument he’s currently making (then it’s just “in the US”). ---
**Author:** ![Unreconstructed\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/76d3ee/32.png) [@Unreconstructed\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unreconstructed_Man)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/482 "2019-05-21T20:15:55Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > How come those who think the death penalty is murder aren’t storming prisons? How come those who think the military is engaged in unjustified violence not storming bases? Is it that they are just liars when they state their opposition? Probably several reasons. There are numerous practical considerations, such as the fact that prisons are built to withstand that kind of thing, but morally speaking the main reason is that capital punishment is just a much greyer issue. It’s one thing to commit violence to save innocent babies (as pro-lifers insist fetuses are). It’s quite another to do it on behalf of convicted murderers. Who in their right mind would commit murder to save the life of a serial killer? ---
**Author:** ![Unreconstructed\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/76d3ee/32.png) [@Unreconstructed\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unreconstructed_Man)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/483 "2019-05-21T20:18:46Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > As has been already noted, we as a society force people to give up control over their own bodies in myriad ways and for various reasons. Not in the same way. There are plenty of laws saying what we _can’t_ do with our bodies, and few, if any, saying what we _must_ do. Especially if, as with pregnancy, there are serious health risks involved. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/484 "2019-05-21T20:22:04Z")
> [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > Not in the same way. There are plenty of laws saying what we _can’t_ do with our bodies, and few, if any, saying what we _must_ do. Especially if, as with pregnancy, there are serious health risks involved. What would you say about all those young men we drafted and sent to Vietnam? They were being told what they _must_ do with their bodies, correct? There were serious health risks involved, correct? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/485 "2019-05-21T20:33:02Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > What would you say about all those young men we drafted and sent to Vietnam? They were being told what they _must_ do with their bodies, correct? There were serious health risks involved, correct? If I’m following the slippery slope of your argument correctly, the fact that we draft people means that _anything goes_ regarding what we as a society can force people to do regarding their bodies, up to and including grabbing people randomly off the street and removing their organs for science and sweetmeats. ---
**Author:** ![Unreconstructed\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/76d3ee/32.png) [@Unreconstructed\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unreconstructed_Man)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/486 "2019-05-21T20:45:24Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > What would you say about all those young men we drafted and sent to Vietnam? They were being told what they _must_ do with their bodies, correct? There were serious health risks involved, correct? The morality of a draft depends on the morality of the war being fought. Vietnam was way before my time and I honestly don’t know enough about it to say if it was a bad war or not. However, if an unambiguously bad war were launched today - like, if we invaded Polynesia to steal their coconuts or something - and if people were drafted to fight it, then I’d not only oppose the draft, but I’d support assassinating the politicians who ordered it if there was a chance it’d make it stop. And frankly, I’d question the commitment of anyone who didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/487 "2019-05-21T20:53:30Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > No, but most people in America don’t care when Americans kill civilians in far away lands. Especially when those civilians are brown. > > If they did care, you’d see people storming the bases. Exactly - it’s very clear that most Americans, probably even the vast majority, don’t make a huge fuss about killing non Americans overseas. They should, but they don’t. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/488 "2019-05-21T20:56:25Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Exactly - it’s very clear that most Americans, probably even the vast majority, don’t make a huge fuss about killing non Americans overseas. They should, but they don’t. If this is really how you feel, why in the world would you constrain your response upthread about the US military to just people killed “in the US”? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/489 "2019-05-21T20:59:18Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > … who likes to pretend he cares just as much about the brown non-Americans as he does about his fellow citizens… Please submit your Certificate of Telepathy for inspection. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/490 "2019-05-21T21:01:22Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > If I’m following the slippery slope of your argument correctly, the fact that we draft people means that _anything goes_ regarding what we as a society can force people to do regarding their bodies, up to and including grabbing people randomly off the street and removing their organs for science and sweetmeats. That’s not an action I’d support. I’m simply acknowledging the reality that “we as a society force people to give up control over their own bodies in myriad ways and for various reasons.” I don’t see anything particularly unique about abortion in this regard. The “it’s my body” argument doesn’t work for draftees or prison inmates, or people ticketed for violating helmet laws. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/491 "2019-05-21T21:01:30Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > What would you say about all those young men we drafted and sent to Vietnam? They were being told what they _must_ do with their bodies, correct? There were serious health risks involved, correct? Wait, are young men still being drafted and sent to war? I thought we stopped doing that quite some time ago. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/492 "2019-05-21T21:02:44Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Please submit your Certificate of Telepathy for inspection. Perhaps you should read post #487 ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/493 "2019-05-21T21:05:40Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Wait, are young men still being drafted and sent to war? I thought we stopped doing that quite some time ago. We’re not currently drafting them, but we do still [require them to register with the Selective Service](https://www.sss.gov/Registration-Info/Who-Registration), you know, just in case we feel like telling them what to do with their bodies. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/494 "2019-05-21T21:08:08Z")
So Dave has the body autonomy to let his twin die without a kidney he could easily donate. His twin is a grown man with three kids, a wife and a business that employs a hundred people. But his sister lacks the body autonomy to prevent a bundle of cells from becoming an actual person. And that seems equatable to you? Seems horribly misogynistic to the rest of us. If I have to forego an abortion because you think it’s murder please explain why you don’t have to forego meat when I think it’s murder? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/495 "2019-05-21T21:09:58Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > We’re not currently drafting them, but we do still [require them to register with the Selective Service](https://www.sss.gov/Registration-Info/Who-Registration), you know, just in case we feel like telling them what to do with their bodies. Can pregnant women apply for Conscientious Objector status? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/496 "2019-05-21T21:15:56Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > That’s not an action I’d support. I’m simply acknowledging the reality that “we as a society force people to give up control over their own bodies in myriad ways and for various reasons.” I don’t see anything particularly unique about abortion in this regard. The “it’s my body” argument doesn’t work for draftees or prison inmates, or people ticketed for violating helmet laws. So what you’re saying is that **you** get to dictate which violations of body autonomy should be allowed, and which are a bridge too far. Based purely on your personal preference. ---
**Author:** ![Malaclypse\_the\_elder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Malaclypse\_the\_elder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malaclypse_the_elder)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/497 "2019-05-21T21:17:39Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > No, in Georgia it’s a person now, before being ‘disconnected from the woman’, but more alarming than that error: What did you mean by “will not even be a person for many weeks after being disconnected from the woman”? What, precisely, do you think it is in the week or two after birth? Am I reading your post correctly that you don’t think it’s a person? Correct. A neonatal is a potential baby and so a potential person. For a period of time after being disconnected from its source of sustenance it has potential but that is all. It may appear that I’m being brutal but to make rational decisions emotion and sentiment must be set aside. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/498 "2019-05-21T21:22:55Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Can pregnant women apply for Conscientious Objector status? No, but they don’t have to register with the Selective Service, so it’s a moot point. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/499 "2019-05-21T21:27:08Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > So Dave has the body autonomy to let his twin die without a kidney he could easily donate. His twin is a grown man with three kids, a wife and a business that employs a hundred people. > > But his sister lacks the body autonomy to prevent a bundle of cells from becoming an actual person. > > And that seems equatable to you? Seems horribly misogynistic to the rest of us. … You didn’t quote anyone, but I assume this is directed at me. There are a whole lot of inconsistencies in the myriad ways and reasons we force people to give up control over their own body. For example, the aforementioned draft: why only men and not women? Is that “horribly misogynistic”? > [@elbows](#): > > … If I have to forego an abortion because you think it’s murder please explain why you don’t have to forego meat when I think it’s murder? Well, for starters, one is a human and the other is a cow / chicken. AFAIK, it’s not possible to “murder” a cow. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/500 "2019-05-21T21:28:48Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > So what you’re saying is that **you** get to dictate which violations of body autonomy should be allowed, and which are a bridge too far. Based purely on your personal preference. We’re in a republic, not a monarchy, and I’m not the monarch, so no, I don’t get to “dictate” “based purely on [my] personal preference”, but I get some small amount of input into those decisions we make as a society, just like you do. Welcome to the party, pal. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659.md?page=26)