# Georgia governor signs strictest abortion bill in nation **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 8, 2019, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659 "2019-05-08T09:49:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/521 "2019-05-21T23:07:15Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > No, in this case it’s being applied very directly to “human rights”: some of the smallest and most vulnerable humans, in fact. Purely at the expense of other humans, but I guess they don’t need rights. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/522 "2019-05-21T23:12:55Z")
It’s becoming increasingly impossible to have civil discourse in our society, which is why I am increasingly less interested in it. How does one respond civilly to uncivil thoughts, ideas, and policies for how to administer the state? How would the Jew respond civilly to the Nazi? The slave to the master? The black man to the Klansman? The Latino or Muslim to the MAGAbot? The fact is that there is a not-so-small group in this country that has power and wants to use their disproportionate power to impose their wickedness on everyone else. It’s impossible to have “discourse” or "debate"under those circumstances. It’s possible for people don’t have skin in the game, but if you’re the one who is either paying the price to live in Trump’s America or believe you might be paying that price at some point, then you’re not interested in academic debate. You want justice. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/523 "2019-05-21T23:14:27Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > No, in this case it’s being applied very directly to “human rights”: some of the smallest and most vulnerable humans, in fact. I disagree that we’re dealing with a human at the ages under discussion. I’ve heard it called a “potential human” - but we don’t generally deal in potentials. The average human is a potential corpse but nobody seems to think that cremating people is okay. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/524 "2019-05-21T23:14:52Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Great, and I’m sure we’ll have a lovely time debating the shape of the jew skull vs. the shape of the negro skull. 🙂 > > I don’t have a problem with debate. I just wish we had some standards and stopped giving fascists yet another platform to spread their bullshit propaganda. I’d be okay with a NO BRONZE-AGE MYTHOLOGIES ALLOWED sign on the door, as a means of disallowing religion-based arguments. That would take a lot of the wind out of fascist sails. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/525 "2019-05-21T23:17:42Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > It’s becoming increasingly impossible to have civil discourse in our society, which is why I am increasingly less interested in it. How does one respond civilly to uncivil thoughts, ideas, and policies for how to administer the state? How would the Jew respond civilly to the Nazi? The slave to the master? The black man to the Klansman? The Latino or Muslim to the MAGAbot? The fact is that there is a not-so-small group in this country that has power and wants to use their disproportionate power to impose their wickedness on everyone else. It’s impossible to have “discourse” or "debate"under those circumstances. It’s possible for people don’t have skin in the game, but if you’re the one who is either paying the price to live in Trump’s America or believe you might be paying that price at some point, then you’re not interested in academic debate. You want justice. ^This, thank you. I’m not really that interested in debating abortion rights. I don’t think there are minds to be changed there - as said, these people lie about what they believe and why (along with everything else) and those who are true believers believe its an edict from god, so why fucking bother? I’m interested in effective praxis to _shut these fuckers down_. To protect the rights of the women in Ohio and Alabama and Georgia, to ensure that countless people don’t needlessly suffer under bad, stupid, immoral laws. And you’ll have to excuse me if I don’t think that any part of that praxis begins with or even involves discussing whether life begins at conception with someone who refuses to even state their own principles on the subject but insists that somehow the draft is a useful point of comparison to anti-abortion laws. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/526 "2019-05-21T23:47:31Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > … The fact is that there is a not-so-small group in this country that has power and wants to use their disproportionate power to impose their wickedness on everyone else. It’s impossible to have “discourse” or "debate"under those circumstances. … There are plenty of people, and many of them with “skin in the game”, that disprove your notion of what’s impossible every day. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/527 "2019-05-22T00:19:10Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > There are plenty of people, and many of them with “skin in the game”, that disprove your notion of what’s impossible every day. Because they don’t understand what’s happening, and why now is different. We’re complacent, ignorant, or both. Once people understand how badly they’re going to get fucked, and that by consensually giving over the country to an authoritarian that they’re giving up their right to have popular influence, they will realize the gravity of their error and become outraged. But it might not be so easy to do something about it then. I trust that one day, HD, even you…will see. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/528 "2019-05-22T00:52:10Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Have you considered the possibility that maybe the SDMB, with its focus on public discourse, isn’t the right fit for you? He holds his own in the Pit. That makes him okay in my book. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/529 "2019-05-22T01:11:19Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > He holds his own in the Pit. That makes him okay in my book. Bravo! Bravissimo! ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/530 "2019-05-22T03:24:42Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > It’s becoming increasingly impossible to have civil discourse in our society, which is why I am increasingly less interested in it. How does one respond civilly to uncivil thoughts, ideas, and policies for how to administer the state? How would the Jew respond civilly to the Nazi? The slave to the master? The black man to the Klansman? The Latino or Muslim to the MAGAbot? The fact is that there is a not-so-small group in this country that has power and wants to use their disproportionate power to impose their wickedness on everyone else. It’s impossible to have “discourse” or "debate"under those circumstances. It’s possible for people don’t have skin in the game, but if you’re the one who is either paying the price to live in Trump’s America or believe you might be paying that price at some point, then you’re not interested in academic debate. You want justice. It’s not even difficult much less impossible to have reasonable discourse. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/531 "2019-05-22T04:47:17Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You didn’t quote anyone, but I assume this is directed at me. There are a whole lot of inconsistencies in the myriad ways and reasons we force people to give up control over their own body. For example, the aforementioned draft: why only men and not women? Is that “horribly misogynistic”? > Well, for starters, one is a human and the other is a cow / chicken. AFAIK, it’s not possible to “murder” a cow. There has never been a draft of women because we’ve not had equality in the fighting forces, while there was a draft on, just that simple. Who can say it won’t happen should a draft be instituted in future? That was then, this is now. This point is THE weakest tea EVER! You don’t think killing animals is ‘murder’, but then I don’t think stopping a clump of cells from developing fully, is murder. Why should your conviction of what is murder shape my actions? If so then my conviction, that eating meat is murder, should equally be able to shape your actions. My believing it’s murder to eat meat doesn’t make it so. Nor does your opinion halting the development of a clump of cells, is murder, make it true. There are not myriad reasons for denying persons their body autonomy. You completely sidestepped why it’s okay to suspend my body autonomy to save a clump of cells, but care not about the man who needs a kidney (grown adult, family children, home, employees etc). His twin’s autonomy is iron clad though a human life hangs in the balance. It almost seems like his magic penis protects him somehow! ---
**Author:** ![Malaclypse\_the\_elder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Malaclypse\_the\_elder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malaclypse_the_elder)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/532 "2019-05-22T05:24:53Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Malaclypse, this is perhaps the most fucked up thing I’ve read all month. Do you understand (at least in the eyes of the law even if it’s not a viewpoint that you accept) that once a baby is born, it’s a full-fledged person, not “just a thing with potential, nothing more”? > > The changes and differences that take place between a typical two-year-old and twenty-year-old are “huge” too, but it doesn’t make the two-year-old “just a thing with potential, nothing more” either. The law takes a subtly different view in an increasing number of European states. Hence the existence of the Groningen Protocol and others. But this is not something new. Anyone who thinks that in the case of deformities a subtle slip of a doctor’s scalpel or a mutated neonatal was not simply provided with warm water rather than nutrition and so allowed to quietly end life is naive in the extreme and this still takes place. It has to. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/533 "2019-05-22T05:38:47Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > There has never been a draft of women because we’ve not had equality in the fighting forces, while there was a draft on, just that simple. Who can say it won’t happen should a draft be instituted in future? That was then, this is now. This point is THE weakest tea EVER! > > You don’t think killing animals is ‘murder’, but then I don’t think stopping a clump of cells from developing fully, is murder. Why should your conviction of what is murder shape my actions? If so then my conviction, that eating meat is murder, should equally be able to shape your actions. > > My believing it’s murder to eat meat doesn’t make it so. Nor does your opinion halting the development of a clump of cells, is murder, make it true. > > There are not myriad reasons for denying persons their body autonomy. You completely sidestepped why it’s okay to suspend my body autonomy to save a clump of cells, but care not about the man who needs a kidney (grown adult, family children, home, employees etc). His twin’s autonomy is iron clad though a human life hangs in the balance. > > It almost seems like his magic penis protects him somehow! You do realize that in a democracy your opinion on meat does have the approximate weight his opinion on abortion has. The difference is your view is shared by a very small proportion so it is unlikely to become law. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/534 "2019-05-22T05:59:00Z")
> [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > But it’s true. If they meant what they said then that’s what we’d expect to see. And not just bombings either. Riots, political assassinations, the works. And even those pro-lifers who didn’t have the stomach for violence should at least be _encouraging_ it, and they shouldn’t be shy about it either. _That’s_ what I’d expect to see _if_ pro-lifers really believed what they _say_ they believed. > > But we don’t see this. We don’t see _anything like_ this. This implies they don’t _really_ believe what they say they believe. Oh sure, there are violent exceptions here and there. But as a percentage of all the tens of millions of pro-lifers in the country they’re utterly negligible. They don’t even rise to the level of statistical significance. Why _is_ that? > > Far as I can tell there’s really only one explanation that makes sense: Pro-lifers don’t _really_ believe abortion is murder. They may think it’s bad. They may think it’s very very bad. But they don’t think it’s murder. And if they don’t think abortion is murder then that means they must think fetuses are intrinsically worth less than walking talking human beings. If that’s the case, then they have no right to force _actual_ walking talking human beings to give up control over their own bodies to keep the fetuses alive. You are vastly underrating the deterrent effect of having police and FBI who are good at their jobs and usually tend to catch terrorists and put them in prison. > [@octopus](#): > > How come those who think the death penalty is murder aren’t storming prisons? How come those who think the military is engaged in unjustified violence not storming bases? Is it that they are just liars when they state their opposition? Yes, all of this. It’s a rather blatant double standard. ---
**Author:** ![Anxious\_Squirrel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/anxious_squirrel/32/1083_2.png) [@Anxious\_Squirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anxious_Squirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/535 "2019-05-22T06:04:53Z")
On the topic of women being drafted… > [@](#): > > By Tyler Pager > Feb. 24, 2019 > > A military draft that applies only to men is unconstitutional, a federal judge in Houston has ruled, saying that excluding women is no longer justified because they can now serve in combat roles just as men do. > [@](#): > > “While historical restrictions on women in the military may have justified past discrimination, men and women are now ‘similarly situated for purposes of a draft or registration for a draft,’” Judge Miller wrote in his ruling. “If there ever was a time to discuss ‘the place of women in the Armed Services,’ that time has passed.” So if the draft is ever re-instituted women could be on the list. [https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/24/us/military-draft-men-unconstitutional.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/24/us/military-draft-men-unconstitutional.html) ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/536 "2019-05-22T06:15:06Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > … Nor does your opinion halting the development of a clump of cells, is murder, make it true. … I don’t believe this is an opinion I’ve espoused. > [@elbows](#): > > … There are not myriad reasons for denying persons their body autonomy. … Of course there are. Everything from we need them as soldiers in Vietnam to we don’t want to have to clean their brains up off the highway to drugs are bad. Those are “myriad reasons”, and they’re all examples of us, as a society, denying people their “body autonomy”. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/537 "2019-05-22T06:16:58Z")
> [@Malaclypse\_the\_elder](#): > > … It has to. No, it doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/538 "2019-05-22T06:20:04Z")
> [@TheMysteryWriter](#): > > On the topic of women being drafted… > > So if the draft is ever re-instituted women could be on the list. > > [https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/24/us/military-draft-men-unconstitutional.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/24/us/military-draft-men-unconstitutional.html) > [@](#): > > Judge Miller’s ruling was declaratory, and it did not specify any action that the government must take to comply. In spite of what the judge declared, women are not currently required to register for the Selective Service, and thus are not “on the list” if the draft is ever re-instituted. ---
**Author:** ![Malaclypse\_the\_elder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Malaclypse\_the\_elder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malaclypse_the_elder)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/539 "2019-05-22T07:31:43Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > No, it doesn’t. The alternative is a growing number of beings that are severely deformed, note severely, that cause huge costs to society on every level even before such quality of life that they have being abysmal. That is unacceptable. It would amount to showing less mercy than would be shown to a deformed animal. ---
**Author:** ![Unreconstructed\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/76d3ee/32.png) [@Unreconstructed\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unreconstructed_Man)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/540 "2019-05-22T07:58:51Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > You are vastly underrating the deterrent effect of having police and FBI who are good at their jobs and usually tend to catch terrorists and put them in prison. They’re not _that_ good. Nearly 40% of murderers are never caught. Imagine how much higher that number would be if all the people who _say_ they thought abortion was murder promised to protect each other, false alibi each other, and other stuff. And what about pro-lifers who are already _in_ the police and FBI? They’d be able to scupper investigations left, right, and center. ‘Abortion is murder’ isn’t some wacky, lunatic fringe position. It’s a _popular_ position held by _literally millions_ of people. If they all decided to walk the walk instead of just talking the talk there’d be no stopping them. Besides, if you _really_ believed abortion was literally murder, wouldn’t it be _worth_ going to prison for? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659.md?page=28)