# Georgia governor signs strictest abortion bill in nation **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 8, 2019, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659 "2019-05-08T09:49:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 33
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2019, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/641 "2019-05-23T21:40:27Z")
But now you’re being slippery, moving the goalposts. You used that “the thing isn’t even a human” line in response to HD’s reference to a _fetus_. We’re not talking about a clump of cells here. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2019, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/642 "2019-05-23T21:49:59Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > 😕 I was advocating a ban on most abortions after the first trimester And I was defending your rights even while you seek to deprive others of theirs. I could clarify at length a little later if necessary. In any case, I can’t picture exactly how I would end up regretting your choice of rhetorical device. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2019, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/643 "2019-05-23T22:43:41Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > But now you’re being slippery, moving the goalposts. You used that “the thing isn’t even a human” line in response to HD’s reference to a _fetus_. We’re not talking about a clump of cells here. I was responding to his clarification that the term “human child” was being used as inclusive to \*\*pre-\*\*fetal things. In actual fact the point at which the thingy transitions from “a bunch of human cells exhibiting some life functions and possibly arranged in the rough shape of a badly mutated humanoid” to “a human” is both debatable and highly contested, and arbitrarily calling the thing in there a human at various arbitrary points (particularly _early_ points) is assuming your conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2019, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/644 "2019-05-23T22:48:35Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > with the advance of technology, I would hope and expect that even that limited window of prescriptiveness (in the second and third trimesters) would disappear with an increased ability to keep premature infants alive and therefore be able to initiate an adoption at any stage of the second or third trimesters. Technology will have to do a very great deal of advancing. Currently, severely premature infants are very often also severely damaged. We have nothing remotely resembling the technology necessary to just pop a fetus out of one womb and into another one, either human or artificial; which is the only way it seems to me to make sense to talk about the ‘adoption’ of second trimester fetuses. > [@SlackerInc](#): > > Words have meanings, and you can’t just personally define them this way because it’s politically inconvenient to use their commonly accepted meanings. The commonly accepted neutral meanings are, depending on stage, ‘zygote’, ‘blastula’, ‘embryo’, and ‘fetus’. In casual conversation that’s not discussing the legality or morality of abortion, people often do refer to any of those stages of development as a ‘baby’ or ‘child’. But in conversations that are discussing the legality and/or morality of abortion, doing so is an attempt to bend the conversation in a particular direction. Words most certainly do have meanings; and using them in that way isn’t neutral. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2019, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/645 "2019-05-23T22:57:53Z")
Insisting on “fetus” rather than “baby” or “child” is _also_ “an attempt to bend the conversation in a particular direction.” ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2019, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/646 "2019-05-23T23:03:25Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Insisting on “fetus” rather than “baby” or “child” is _also_ “an attempt to bend the conversation in a particular direction.” Which is why in threads lately I’ve been using “thingy”. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2019, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/647 "2019-05-23T23:08:09Z")
Except that it _ **is** _ a fetus, NOT a child OR a baby, so, actually, no you’re mistaken. Fetus IS the medical/neutral term. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2019, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/648 "2019-05-23T23:10:59Z")
Fetus may be the “medical” term, but I don’t know that that necessarily makes it a “neutral” term. As noted above, it’s quite common to refer to the “thingy” as a “baby” or “child”. And in Georgia (again, see thread title) “unborn child” is the _legal_ term. Why are medical terms any more valid than legal terms for discussion? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2019, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/649 "2019-05-23T23:11:04Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Insisting on “fetus” rather than “baby” or “child” is _also_ “an attempt to bend the conversation in a particular direction.” Do you honestly believe that we will adopt your coercive terminology just because the correct terms upset you? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2019, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/650 "2019-05-23T23:12:29Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > And in Georgia (again, see thread title) “unborn child” is the _legal_ term. So what? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2019, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/651 "2019-05-23T23:15:02Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > And in Georgia (again, see thread title) “unborn child” is the _legal_ term. That doesn’t suggest it’s a neutral term. Rather, since the law was written by people who are anti-abortion, it’s fair to assume they chose terminology they think favors their position. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2019, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/652 "2019-05-23T23:17:20Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > That doesn’t suggest it’s a neutral term. Rather, since the law was written by people who are anti-abortion, it’s fair to assume they chose terminology they think favors their position. I didn’t say, and don’t think, it’s a “neutral” term (and neither is “fetus”). In terms of abortion, and the fight over what to label the baby/thingy/human/person/fetus/unborn child, I don’t think I’ve heard a term that I’d consider “neutral”. _Everything_ used is “an attempt to bend the conversation in a particular direction.” ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2019, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/653 "2019-05-23T23:19:15Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I didn’t say, and don’t think, it’s a “neutral” term (and neither is “fetus”). In terms of abortion, and the fight over what to label the baby/thingy/human/person/fetus/unborn child, I don’t think I’ve heard a term that I’d consider “neutral”. _Everything_ used is “an attempt to bend the conversation in a particular direction.” Thingy is the best I can do, man! Look what I have to work with! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2019, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/654 "2019-05-23T23:19:34Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I didn’t say, and don’t think, it’s a “neutral” term. In terms of abortion, and the fight over what to label the baby/thingy/human/person/fetus/unborn child, I don’t think I’ve heard a term that I’d consider “neutral”. _Everything_ used is “an attempt to bend the conversation in a particular direction.” So if both of us are supposedly using loaded terminology, at what point do you quit insisting that we use your preferred terms? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2019, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/655 "2019-05-23T23:22:28Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Thingy is the best I can do, man! Look what I have to work with! Honestly, “thingy” is one of the better attempts at finding a neutral-ish word. Kudos to you. It’ll still get some pro-lifers upset for trying to ignore / downplay the basic human nature of the “thingy”, but it does have the advantage of sidestepping a lot of the connotations that come along with words like “baby” or “fetus”. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2019, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/656 "2019-05-23T23:23:41Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So if both of us are supposedly using loaded terminology, at what point do you quit insisting that we use your preferred terms? Let’s start with a simpler question first: at what point did I ever “insist” that “we” start using my preferred terms? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2019, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/657 "2019-05-23T23:25:50Z")
I admit bemusement at the apparently weighty baggage that comes with using “fetus”. The label is academic anyway. Its location inside the body of an unwilling host is the issue. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2019, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/658 "2019-05-23T23:27:16Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Honestly, “thingy” is one of the better attempts at finding a neutral-ish word. Kudos to you. > > It’ll still get some pro-lifers upset for trying to ignore / downplay the basic human nature of the “thingy”, but it does have the advantage of sidestepping a lot of the connotations that come along with words like “baby” or “fetus”. The ‘y’ is on the end to lighten the tone and soften any untoward implications. (Compare calling it a “thing”.) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2019, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/659 "2019-05-23T23:28:48Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Let’s start with a simpler question first: at what point did I ever “insist” that “we” start using my preferred terms? “I” “would” “like” “it” “if” “you” “would” “just” “tell” “us” “what” “terminology” “doesn’t” “get” “your” “panties” “in” “a” “bunch”. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2019, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/660 "2019-05-23T23:30:18Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > The ‘y’ is on the end to lighten the tone and soften any untoward implications. (Compare calling it a “thing”.) And I think it’s mostly effective at that. Really, I think your usage of it comes across to me as a sincere attempt at good-faith discussion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659.md?page=32) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659.md?page=34)