# Georgia governor signs strictest abortion bill in nation **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 8, 2019, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659 "2019-05-08T09:49:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 34
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2019, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/661 "2019-05-23T23:31:28Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > “I” “would” “like” “it” “if” “you” “would” “just” “tell” “us” “what” “terminology” “doesn’t” “get” “your” “panties” “in” “a” “bunch”. I don’t wear panties, but I’m comfortable with “unborn child” as defined in the Georgia law that is the topic of this thread. Is that acceptable? Or would that put your panties in a bunch? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2019, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/662 "2019-05-23T23:33:18Z")
(I’m stepping out now for a meeting, so you probably won’t see any more replies from me for a while) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2019, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/663 "2019-05-23T23:37:03Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t wear panties, but I’m comfortable with “unborn child” as defined in the Georgia law that is the topic of this thread. Is that acceptable? Or would that put your panties in a bunch? This board isn’t based in Georgia, I don’t live in Georgia, and I have a suspicion that you don’t live in Georgia, so why the fuck do you think we should adopt the obviously biased terminology of those who passed this law in Georgia(besides the fact that you support this obviously biased terminology)? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2019, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/664 "2019-05-23T23:39:06Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t wear panties, but I’m comfortable with “unborn child” as defined in the Georgia law that is the topic of this thread. Is that acceptable? Or would that put your panties in a bunch? Well, the “child” part of it is grotesquely inaccurate given the time periods that make the Georgia law so special and unique, so there’s that. “Unborn” is accurate enough, though. Or should that be “Not-born”? I’m a little hazy on the varying nuances of the various negating prefixes. Meh, I’ll stick with ‘thingy’. ---
**Author:** ![LC\_Strawhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@LC\_Strawhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LC_Strawhouse)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/665 "2019-05-24T01:08:48Z")
I’m confused why this issue is such a big part of “conservative” identity. I get it on firearms and other issues, but not this. Any conservative I’ve ever known admires societies like the Vikings and Romans - each of whom followed practices comparable to abortion as a method of (allegedly) keeping their tribe healthy. Doesn’t that occur to anyone? ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/666 "2019-05-24T01:10:34Z")
It’s astonishing to me that the accurate medical term is seen as loaded. Is carcinoma similarly unacceptable? How about epidermis? ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/667 "2019-05-24T01:37:50Z")
Only to people who think ‘pro life’, is actually accurate, and that ‘unborn child’, _isn’t_ loaded language. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/668 "2019-05-24T03:00:12Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > It’s astonishing to me that the accurate medical term is seen as loaded. Is carcinoma similarly unacceptable? How about epidermis? It’s not a meltdown, it’s an unrequested fission surplus. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/669 "2019-05-24T03:29:04Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m comfortable with “unborn child” as defined in the Georgia law that is the topic of this thread. Is that acceptable? Not if you mean it should be acceptable for you to try to make everyone else use it. About half this entire argument is about whether the fetus, or embryo, or zygote (‘from the moment of conception’) is a child. You’re expecting people to concede that argument in order to even discuss the subject. (The other half is about whether, when, and to what extent, whatever name we use, it’s entitled to commandeer an unwilling person’s body.) ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/670 "2019-05-24T07:07:25Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Insisting on “fetus” rather than “baby” or “child” is _also_ “an attempt to bend the conversation in a particular direction.” > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I didn’t say, and don’t think, it’s a “neutral” term (and neither is “fetus”). In terms of abortion, and the fight over what to label the baby/thingy/human/person/fetus/unborn child, I don’t think I’ve heard a term that I’d consider “neutral”. _Everything_ used is “an attempt to bend the conversation in a particular direction.” I cosign both of these posts. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/671 "2019-05-24T09:45:30Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t think removing a dead baby from the womb is what most people think of as “abortion”. YMMV, but the Georgia law that is the topic of this thread handles this issue: That’s nice, but I wasn’t talking about the Georgia law; I was replying to **SlackerInc** ’s post advocating a hard abortion ban after the first trimester. That should have been clear from even a casual read. And FWIW, at this point, the thread’s not about just the Georgia law, but the Alabama law, the Ohio law, the Missouri law…you get the idea. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/672 "2019-05-24T09:54:22Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I’m of the Clinton attitude, \*‘safe, legal, rare’ \*camp. But I must say, picking this particular nit seems pedantic. I mean, Don’t you think that in civil/neutral discourse, it is appropriate to call an individual or organization by the name that that individual or organization uses? Most of the time, yes. But if that name is fundamentally dishonest, then no. In the case of the pro-life movement, there are people who are genuinely pro-life. They’re not only against abortion, but against war, capital punishment, etc. (The Berrigan brothers from back in the day come to mind.) Calling people “pro-life” who love it when the U.S. messes around in other countries and causes hundreds of thousands to die - nope. Calling people “pro-life” who want to force a mother to carry her fetus to birth, but don’t give a damn about the welfare of the child once it’s born - nope. They’re not pro-life; they’re pro-forced-birth. I’m not going to let them be the beneficiaries of the sweet stories they tell about themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/673 "2019-05-24T12:18:57Z")
Truth be told, I’d be okay with “unborn child” if I could trust pro-lifers not to prevaricate on it, i.e. seeing them claim that support for abortion rights equals support for infanticide because if one is okay with terminating an “unborn child”, clearly one _must_ be okay with killing an infant since there is no difference between the two, once you ignore the “unborn” part. I have no such trust, so I see no reason to abandon the medical term “fetus”. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/674 "2019-05-24T12:47:11Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t wear panties, but I’m comfortable with “unborn child” as defined in the Georgia law that is the topic of this thread. Why not call it an “unborn, un-grown-up adult” which would be equally accurate? Or maybe “unborn future teenager.” Seriously, all these terms describe fetuses by **a future stage of their development** , rather than by the one they’re in, and add the ‘un’ terms for correctness. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/675 "2019-05-24T12:59:53Z")
Heck, it’s gonna end up dead eventually; why not cut to the chase? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/676 "2019-05-24T13:13:48Z")
How about “unborn potential terrorist”, then? That makes about as much sense as decreeing that life starts when the sperm and egg combine, not when the male jacks off or the female has a period. \*Sex \*- with a real girl! - has to be involved to let a sufficient amount of sanctimony into it. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/677 "2019-05-24T13:45:21Z")
An anti-abort once tried to convince me fetus meant “young one,” which somehow implies that abortion is murder. I looked it up. “Fetus” means “small one.” ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/678 "2019-05-24T14:01:46Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Heck, it’s gonna end up dead eventually; why not cut to the chase? I like that! “Unborn, not-yet-dead corpse.” ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/679 "2019-05-24T15:14:02Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Heck, it’s gonna end up dead eventually; why not cut to the chase? [http://bonread.ru/lois-bujold-barrayar.html?page=98](http://bonread.ru/lois-bujold-barrayar.html?page=98) > [@](#): > > ’By this act, I bring one death into the world.’ One birth, one death, and all the pain and acts of will between. [. . .] A Barrayaran-style sexual ’accident’ can start a chain of causality that doesn’t stop till the end of time. Our children change us … whether they live or not. (The ‘this act’ in the quote isn’t sex or conception; it’s giving birth.) I keep thinking about this quote when I think about this thread; because carrying a pregnancy to term, whether or not the resulting child is then given to someone else to raise, does not, ah, abort that chain of causality. One can surrender legal responsibility; moral and emotional responsibility is another matter. It’s not only the body that’s likely to be permanently changed. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/680 "2019-05-24T16:12:08Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You use “neutral” and “civil” here. I don’t think the phrase “anti-abortion-rights” is either one of those things. That position makes no sense to me. What the people in this movement are attempting to do is to legally restrict or eliminate the right of a pregnant woman to terminate her pregnancy by means of an abortion. Do you not agree with this? If so, how is it in any way not “neutral” or “civil” to refer to this movement as “anti-abortion rights”? And if not, exactly what do you think is incorrect about the characterization of the movement as “attempting to legally restrict or eliminate the right of a pregnant woman to terminate her pregnancy by means of an abortion”? > [@SlackerInc](#): > > The problem with the second is that you are expecting the antiabortion camp to use a term that defines them as being against “rights”. Yes, because that particular right is what they are against. Just as, for example, I have no problem describing people (including myself) who want to repeal the Second Amendment as being “anti-gun-rights”—because that is a factually accurate description of my position—I expect rational grownups who seek to legally restrict or eliminate the right to abortion to have no problem with being described as “anti-abortion-rights”. Because that is a factually accurate description of their position. To claim that it’s insulting or uncivil to refer to a political position by a term that objectively and factually describes its stated goal comes across as being either (a) too emotionally fragile to be discussing a controversial subject, or (b) disingenuously refusing to engage with anybody who doesn’t already agree with that position. Same thing for claims that it’s insulting or uncivil to call a fetus by the factually accurate term “fetus” rather than “baby” or “child”. Can you imagine the outraged harrumphing you’d get from a lot of these same people if they were told, say, that civility required them to call people illegally resident in the US “future citizens” instead of “undocumented immigrants”, for example? Yet they get all miffed about honest debaters calling a fetus a fetus? Seriously? (By the way, if civility requires that self-described “pro-choicers” call a fetus a “baby” or “child” when talking to self-described “pro-lifers”, then doesn’t civility require that the self-described “pro-lifers” call the unborn child a “fetus” when talking to self-described “pro-choicers”? Why should the expectations of accommodating other people’s preferred terms go only one way?) > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Honestly, “thingy” is one of the better attempts at finding a neutral-ish word. :dubious: You opine that self-described “pro-lifers” would consider “thingy” a more civil and neutral term than “fetus”? ISTM that that vanquishes some fairly stiff competition for the title of the least sensible thing you’ve said in this thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659.md?page=33) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659.md?page=35)