# Georgia purges 1 in 10 voters from voter rolls **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 10, 2018, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-purges-1-in-10-voters-from-voter-rolls/822742 "2018-10-10T10:58:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-purges-1-in-10-voters-from-voter-rolls/822742/61 "2018-10-11T03:47:34Z")
This isn’t going to stop until republicans start going to prison for doing this. Good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-purges-1-in-10-voters-from-voter-rolls/822742/62 "2018-10-11T04:35:45Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > This isn’t going to stop until republicans start going to prison for doing this. Good luck with that. Going to prison for doing what? What they did is both legal and constitutional. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-purges-1-in-10-voters-from-voter-rolls/822742/63 "2018-10-11T05:02:15Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Going to prison for doing what? What they did is both legal and constitutional. Please note the OP: Now, it’s worth noting that the supreme court, in a 5-4 partisan split, [has deemed this sort of purge legal](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/6/11/17448742/ohio-voter-purge-supreme-court-ruling). So let me make it clear that nobody has said that what Brian Kemp did is illegal. **It is, however, deeply undemocratic; the kind of thing where there should be a law**. In fact, there _is_ a law! It’s just one with the kind of loophole you can drive a truck through - the kind of loophole a court paying attention to the intention of the lawmakers would have closed - hence the 5-4 split. Imagine a country where, for some reason, there are no laws on the books specifically preventing the owner of a bank from making off with all the money deposited at that bank. Then, the owner of the largest bank does exactly that, leaving millions destitute. Then, in a landmark court case, the supreme court rules that, while what he did was (to quote the majority opinion) a “dick move”, there is no law against it so it is, in fact, legal. What that CEO did was undeniably legal and constitutional, therefore anyone saying that he deserves to go to jail is clearly being irrational and/or favoring mob rule. :rolleyes: It is exactly this kind of nonsense I tried to head off at the pass with my paragraph in the OP about how this is clearly legal but _obviously should not be_. What they did was legal. It should not be. It is a _blatant_ attempt to disenfranchise as many voters as possible. The fact that _10% of registered voters_, including _at least_ 100,000 we _know_ still live in Georgia, were caught by this, means it worked. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-purges-1-in-10-voters-from-voter-rolls/822742/64 "2018-10-11T08:16:15Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Voter rolls have to be kept up to date. If someone has not voted for a while the state reaches out to see if they are still at the same address. If they do not respond they are taken off the rolls and they have to re-register. How pathetic are people that either voting every couple years, responding to a postcard, or registering to vote is undoable? In Spain every election is preceded by sending people’s registration cards. If you get one that you don’t know who the heck it’s for, or if you don’t get yours, you can go to what you believe to be your electoral location or to city hall to check the rolls. If you get your card and it’s correct, just don’t do anything. Since most cards are correct, most people don’t need to do anything (both voters and at the registry). Saves work! ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-purges-1-in-10-voters-from-voter-rolls/822742/65 "2018-10-11T10:38:20Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > In Spain every election is preceded by sending people’s registration cards. If you get one that you don’t know who the heck it’s for, or if you don’t get yours, you can go to what you believe to be your electoral location or to city hall to check the rolls. If you get your card and it’s correct, just don’t do anything. > > Since most cards are correct, most people don’t need to do anything (both voters and at the registry). Saves work! 😕 You describe a system intended to make it easy for voters to register. That’s off-topic in this thread: Georgia’s objective is to make it _difficult_ for voters to register. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-purges-1-in-10-voters-from-voter-rolls/822742/66 "2018-10-11T11:21:31Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Paranoid Randroid** : > > Ahem, you mean Columbus! He said “largest county”. Cuyahoga County (Cleveland) has about 4,000 more people than Franklin (Columbus) (as an aside, I’m surprised the gap is that small). ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-purges-1-in-10-voters-from-voter-rolls/822742/67 "2018-10-11T13:23:06Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > That’s 1 in 10 registered voters. Not _eligible_ voters, _registered_ voters. Who didn’t vote, didn’t file a change of address form, didn’t respond to the county asking them if they had moved, and who don’t have Internet access or a printer, can’t afford a stamp or an envelope, can’t make it to their local county board of registrars’ office or election office, public library, public assistance office, recruitment office, schools, and other government offices, have not applied for or renewed a driver’s license, and are not college students. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-purges-1-in-10-voters-from-voter-rolls/822742/68 "2018-10-11T13:28:58Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Who didn’t vote, didn’t file a change of address form, didn’t respond to the county asking them if they had moved, and who don’t have Internet access or a printer, can’t afford a stamp or an envelope, can’t make it to their local county board of registrars’ office or election office, public library, public assistance office, recruitment office, schools, and other government offices, have not applied for or renewed a driver’s license, and are not college students. > > Regards, > Shodan What percentage of the total registered voters would it have to be before you got worried? 20%? 50%? Is there any point at which you tilt your head and say, “hang on, that doesn’t sound right…”? I didn’t take you to be the type to trust the government this much! ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-purges-1-in-10-voters-from-voter-rolls/822742/69 "2018-10-11T13:49:19Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > What percentage of the total registered voters would it have to be before you got worried? 20%? 50%? 31.262%. Or whatever percent represents those who don’t vote, don’t read their mail, don’t have Internet access, never leave the house, and can’t figure out how to work an envelope. Whichever is smaller. > [@](#): > > I didn’t take you to be the type to trust the government this much! I would prefer this to be handled in accordance with the laws of Georgia, which are AFAIK publicly debated and a matter of record. But only if the Republicans don’t take the fiendishly clever stratagem of concealing those laws on the Georgia Secretary of State’s website. It would have worked, too - if it weren’t for you meddling _kids_! Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-purges-1-in-10-voters-from-voter-rolls/822742/70 "2018-10-11T14:08:33Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > It is exactly this kind of nonsense I tried to head off at the pass with my paragraph in the OP about how this is clearly legal but _obviously should not be_. What they did was legal. It should not be. It is a _blatant_ attempt to disenfranchise as many voters as possible. The fact that _10% of registered voters_, including _at least_ 100,000 we _know_ still live in Georgia, were caught by this, means it worked. But no one has yet explained how this, in and of itself, favors either party. I agree that there are better ways to handle the voter rolls, but honestly can’t see how this is a partisan issue. Does it boil down to who is more likely to return a postage paid card? > [@septimus](#): > > 😕 You describe a system intended to make it easy for voters to register. That’s off-topic in this thread: Georgia’s objective is to make it _difficult_ for voters to register. Registering to vote and purging voter rolls are two very different things. Registration is handled at the county government level, for one thing. At minimum, in addition to online voter registration, GA counties offer these methods: > [@](#): > > 1. Download, complete, and mail a voter registration application. > 2. You can go to your local county board of registrars’ office or election office, public library, public assistance office, recruitment office, schools, and other government offices for a mail-in registration form. > 3. Registration is offered when you renew or apply for your driver’s license at Department of Driver Services. > 4. College students can obtain Georgia voter registration forms, or the necessary forms to register in any state in the U.S., from their school registrar’s office or from the office of the Vice President of Academic Affairs. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-purges-1-in-10-voters-from-voter-rolls/822742/71 "2018-10-11T14:08:45Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > This isn’t going to stop until republicans start going to prison for doing this. Good luck with that. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Going to prison for doing what? What they did is both legal and constitutional. > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Please note the OP: > > Now, it’s worth noting that the supreme court, in a 5-4 partisan split, [has deemed this sort of purge legal](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/6/11/17448742/ohio-voter-purge-supreme-court-ruling). So let me make it clear that nobody has said that what Brian Kemp did is illegal. **It is, however, deeply undemocratic; the kind of thing where there should be a law**. In fact, there _is_ a law! It’s just one with the kind of loophole you can drive a truck through - the kind of loophole a court paying attention to the intention of the lawmakers would have closed - hence the 5-4 split. Please note the post that prompted **HD** to emphasize the legality of the steps taken. If you (or **Wesley Clark** ) wish to send people to prison, perhaps the first step should be to change the laws so that the behavior you wish to punish is in fact criminal. Or just lock 'em up anyway. Because if you can’t beat 'em, join 'em? Trump’s “Lock her up,” rhetoric is despicable. But that type of rhetoric is just as . . . er . . . deplorable when it advocates prison for anyone when there’s no criminal law broken, regardless of how much Democrats are frustrated by the results. Or at least, it should be. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-purges-1-in-10-voters-from-voter-rolls/822742/72 "2018-10-11T14:29:33Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > If you’re genuinely unable to come up with any political shenanigans off the top of your head that might accomplish this, start a new thread. I find it trivially easy to come up with some basic ideas, but also recognize that Republicans have devoted thousands of hours, tremendous political expertise, and incredible resources to refining their attempts, and even then a lot of their attempts have been ruled illegal. I’m not going to hijack this thread with my giving you off-the-top-of-my-head counterfactual ideas how Democrats could try to engage in similar legally-questionable strategies to disenfranchise people, when the entire point I’m making is that they’re not doing so. But this might be a fun Thread Game topic or something; go for it if you’d like. I’m not interested in starting a thread on the topic just because you cannot or will not back up a claim you made. It actually doesn’t even matter since the logical error you made is not dependent on there being alternative strategies anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-purges-1-in-10-voters-from-voter-rolls/822742/73 "2018-10-11T14:40:30Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If you (or **Wesley Clark** ) wish to send people to prison, perhaps the first step should be to change the laws so that the behavior you wish to punish is in fact criminal. I even bolded the relevant part! Let me try again: Now, it’s worth noting that the supreme court, in a 5-4 partisan split, has deemed this sort of purge legal. So let me make it clear that nobody has said that what Brian Kemp did is illegal. It is, however, deeply undemocratic; _ **the kind of thing where there should be a law** _. In fact, there is a law! It’s just one with the kind of loophole you can drive a truck through - the kind of loophole a court paying attention to the intention of the lawmakers would have closed - hence the 5-4 split. I am trying very hard to stop this thread from getting bogged down by exactly that nonsensical semantic argument. The difference between “This isn’t going to stop until people go to jail for it” and “We should throw people in jail for this” is pretty substantial, and if you’re going to lawyer over _any_ split hair, you should notice that one. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-purges-1-in-10-voters-from-voter-rolls/822742/74 "2018-10-11T15:01:51Z")
What type of law do you envision? “It’s illegal to remove people from the registration rolls?” Something like that? ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-purges-1-in-10-voters-from-voter-rolls/822742/75 "2018-10-11T15:40:44Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > In Spain every election is preceded by sending people’s registration cards. If you get one that you don’t know who the heck it’s for, or if you don’t get yours, you can go to what you believe to be your electoral location or to city hall to check the rolls. If you get your card and it’s correct, just don’t do anything. > > Since most cards are correct, most people don’t need to do anything (both voters and at the registry). Saves work! Well such an obviously racist system would never work in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-purges-1-in-10-voters-from-voter-rolls/822742/76 "2018-10-11T15:45:11Z")
Resolved: it is possible to believe something should be criminal without it currently being criminal. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-purges-1-in-10-voters-from-voter-rolls/822742/77 "2018-10-11T15:49:28Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > Resolved: it is possible to believe something should be criminal without it currently being criminal. Agreed. Further resolved: No one should go to jail for doing things that are legal and Constitutional, and ex post facto laws are un-Constitutional. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-purges-1-in-10-voters-from-voter-rolls/822742/78 "2018-10-11T15:52:10Z")
Resolved: removing registered, valid voters from the rolls is a bad thing, and instituting policies and processes by which the government will automatically do so is also a bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-purges-1-in-10-voters-from-voter-rolls/822742/79 "2018-10-11T16:05:32Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Now, it’s worth noting that the supreme court, in a 5-4 partisan split, has deemed this sort of purge legal. So let me make it clear that nobody has said that what Brian Kemp did is illegal. It is, however, deeply undemocratic; _ **the kind of thing where there should be a law** _. In fact, there is a law! It’s just one with the kind of loophole you can drive a truck through - the kind of loophole a court paying attention to the intention of the lawmakers would have closed - hence the 5-4 split. So the loophole in the law is that it doesn’t do what you want. I am not sure I call that a “loophole”. > [@Eonwe](#): > > Resolved: removing registered, valid voters from the rolls is a bad thing, and instituting policies and processes by which the government will automatically do so is also a bad thing. Disagree. Resolved: The state of Georgia has a legitimate interest in maintaining its voter rolls and taking reasonable steps to ensure that people vote in their county of residence. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-purges-1-in-10-voters-from-voter-rolls/822742/80 "2018-10-11T16:12:26Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Agreed. > > Further resolved: No one should go to jail for doing things that are legal and Constitutional, and ex post facto laws are un-Constitutional. > > Regards, > Shodan Agreed. Trust me, if Kemp were arrested tomorrow ‘just because’, I’d most definitely stand up against it. And if someone made what he did illegal tomorrow, I would not call for him to be arrested for his actions yesterday. Also, at some point before was illegal, someone said, "hey, those people who are doing are doing something pretty bad. We don’t want people doing . People who do should probably be [punished/fined/imprisoned] as a consequence of doing . It’s been stated over and over, but “you should go to jail for that” can be used as an expression to mean “I believe your actions should be criminal.” Why you continue to argue against a position that most people here have stated directly and clearly that they don’t hold is baffling. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-purges-1-in-10-voters-from-voter-rolls/822742.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-purges-1-in-10-voters-from-voter-rolls/822742.md?page=5)