# German Federal Elections, September 2017 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 19, 2017, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-federal-elections-september-2017/784769 "2017-04-19T03:56:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-federal-elections-september-2017/784769/41 "2017-09-26T16:58:37Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > Dismissing people’s concerns and their voting for a party that addresses those concerns as ‘throwing a tantrum’ is exactly the attitude that pushes people to vote for extreme parties instead of mainstream parties. If the mainstream parties hold you in contempt for not agreeing with what their glorious leaders tell you you should want, why not vote for the people who might hate other people but don’t hate you? I said nothing about them “not agreeing” with “the glorious leaders” of “the mainstream parties”. If anything I think the issue is of them being aggressively in denial of reality. Beyond that I’d respectfully say that it’s pretty obvious that the white working class is pretty clearly throwing a huge temper tantrum. Considering their white privilege doesn’t what it used to mean that’s not a surprise. I know they’d like to go back to a time when what they called “the third World” wasn’t industrialized or when they didn’t have to worry about having to compete with immigrants for jobs or other countries when it came to where to build factories, but that’s no longer the case. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-federal-elections-september-2017/784769/42 "2017-09-26T17:14:44Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > I’m not sure why you would churckle, surely this couldn’t have come as a suprpise to you. Eastern Europeans tend to be both more economically left-wing and more culturally conservative (at least on issues of ethnicity and immigration) than western Europeans, and that holds within Germany as well: residents of the former GDR are more left wing on economics and more conservatives on immigration/ethnicity than westerners. Which is one indication that concepts of ‘left’ and ‘right’ here aren’t all that useful, there’s no intrinsic reason that someone who prefers a large state role in the economy & high taxes also needs to support a tolerant approach towards ethnic minoritys. I chuckled because they were raised in countries whose governments imposed in an educational system which was specifically designed eliminate all trace of racism and force tolerance on them because their Soviet masters insisted they were going to free those who’d been colonized by the West(or words to that effect). And yes, authoritarians tend to be very strong believers in a large state role in the economy and preaches hatred of “the other” including ethnic minorities. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-federal-elections-september-2017/784769/43 "2017-09-26T17:14:54Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I said nothing about them “not agreeing” with “the glorious leaders” of “the mainstream parties”. If anything I think the issue is of them being aggressively in denial of reality. You classified them voting for someone other than the mainstream parties as throwing a temper tantrum, with the clear implication that they should just stick to voting for the mainstream parties instead of what they are doing. > [@](#): > > Beyond that I’d respectfully say that it’s pretty obvious that the white working class is pretty clearly throwing a huge temper tantrum. As I said before and you ignored, dismissing people’s actual political concerns as “a huge temper tantrum” like you do explicitly and the mainstream parties do implicitly only encourages them to seek out the parties that don’t treat their concerns with contempt. Your sneering commentary is basically a recruiting drive for the parties you don’t seem to like. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-federal-elections-september-2017/784769/44 "2017-09-26T19:56:36Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > You classified them voting for someone other than the mainstream parties as throwing a temper tantrum, with the clear implication that they should just stick to voting for the mainstream parties instead of what they are doing. No I didn’t. I didn’t say "voting for someone other than “a mainstream party” was “throwing a temper tantrum” nor do I think that. I think voting for the authoritarian types they’re voting for is throwing a temper tantrum. There’s a difference. Besides you keep referring to “mainstream parties” which is a vague somewhat meaningless phrase. > [@](#): > > As I said before and you ignored, dismissing people’s actual political concerns as “a huge temper tantrum” like you do explicitly and the mainstream parties do implicitly only encourages them to seek out the parties that don’t treat their concerns with contempt. Your sneering commentary is basically a recruiting drive for the parties you don’t seem to like No, I didn’t ignore it, I just think we’ve spent way too much patronizing the white working class and it’s time to tell them truth. I understand that lots of white working class folks can’t the fact their privileges don’t carry the same weight they used to, but that’s the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-federal-elections-september-2017/784769/45 "2017-09-26T20:32:12Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > No I didn’t. I didn’t say "voting for someone other than “a mainstream party” was “throwing a temper tantrum” nor do I think that. I think voting for the authoritarian types they’re voting for is throwing a temper tantrum. Talk about splitting hairs - so it’s not that they voted for a non-mainstream party, it’s that they voted for an actual non-mainstream party that has views they agree with and you don’t. So in practice you’re saying that voting for a non-mainstream party is “throwing a temper tantrum”, but technically if they voted for a non-mainstream party that you approved of but doesn’t seem to exist it wouldn’t be. I think that sums it up. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-federal-elections-september-2017/784769/46 "2017-09-26T22:04:59Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > Talk about splitting hairs - so it’s not that they voted for a non-mainstream party, it’s that they voted for an actual non-mainstream party that has views they agree with and you don’t. Nice try, no splitting of hairs there. It’s not that they’re voting for a party I disagree with but because they voted for an authoritarian party. I’m genuinely surprised that you’re unable to understand the difference and seem to genuinely believe that the only political parties I’d disapprove of were authoritarian ones. > [@](#): > > if they voted for a non-mainstream party that you approved of but doesn’t seem to exist it wouldn’t be. I think that sums it up No that doesn’t come close to summing it up. You also have yet to explain the difference between a “mainstream political party” and a “non-mainstream political party”. That being said I’m genuinely shocked that you’re claiming that no non-mainstream political parties are opposed to authoritarianism. At least that seems to be what you’re saying with your claim regarding saying that such a party “doesn’t seem to exist at that time.” Perhaps you could make yourself clearer because comments don’t make a lot of sense. This is a conversation not a fight or a high school debate. ---
**Author:** ![ThrashMcknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/51bf81/32.png) [@ThrashMcknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThrashMcknight)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-federal-elections-september-2017/784769/47 "2017-09-27T02:53:06Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Admittedly, Germany isn’t the only country where the white working class is throwing a tantrum because they’re upset about how society is changing on them. To be honest the problem really the white WORKING class, its the white UPPER class. These are the people who have the most to lose from change, so naturally they would be afraid of any change that would weaken their power. However where the working class do COME in is that the upper class dupes them to shore up their base as well as keep the working and middle classes of minorities fighting the white working class while they keep ruling and either undo “harmful” change (change that is harmful to the upper class) or create new “change” that shores up their power and wealth and makes sure they keep raking it in\*. At least that is how it is in America (where I’m from) and frankly, this rise in global nationalism (Trump, Le Pen, Putin, AfD) scares the s\*\*\* out of me. Both world wars have deep root causes in nationalism and now we have nukes. \*Screwing over everyone else would also apply here. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-federal-elections-september-2017/784769/48 "2017-09-27T17:36:50Z")
> [@ThrashMcknight](#): > > To be honest the problem really the white WORKING class, its the white UPPER class. These are the people who have the most to lose from change, so naturally they would be afraid of any change that would weaken their power. However where the working class do COME in is that the upper class dupes them to shore up their base as well as keep the working and middle classes of minorities fighting the white working class while they keep ruling and either undo “harmful” change (change that is harmful to the upper class) or create new “change” that shores up their power and wealth and makes sure they keep raking it in\*. At least that is how it is in America (where I’m from) and frankly, this rise in global nationalism (Trump, Le Pen, Putin, AfD) scares the s\*\*\* out of me. Both world wars have deep root causes in nationalism and now we have nukes. > > \*Screwing over everyone else would also apply here. So “Middle class and working class minirities” are “duped” into “fighting the white working class”. It’s not shit like white working class morons doing stuff like this? [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iyZgJpqv-Q) ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-federal-elections-september-2017/784769/49 "2017-09-27T17:54:25Z")
D’oh ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2017, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-federal-elections-september-2017/784769/50 "2017-11-20T03:02:23Z")
Updating this thread: > [@](#): > > German Chancellor Angela Merkel pledged early Monday to maintain stability after the Free Democratic Party pulled out of talks on forming a new government with her conservative bloc and the left-leaning Greens, raising the possibility of new elections. > > Merkel told reporters that the parties had been close to reaching a consensus on how to proceed with formal coalition talks but that the Free Democrats decided abruptly to pull out just before midnight Sunday — a move she said she respected, but found “regrettable.”… > > Without bringing the Free Democrats back to the table, Merkel will be forced to try to continue her current governing coalition with the Social Democrats, although that center-left party has said it will not do so, or she could try to form a minority government, which was seen as unlikely. Otherwise Germany will have to hold new elections. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/german-government-talks-collapse-merkel-seeks-to-reassure/2017/11/19/1a0e22c6-cd8d-11e7-a87b-47f14b73162a\_story.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/german-government-talks-collapse-merkel-seeks-to-reassure/2017/11/19/1a0e22c6-cd8d-11e7-a87b-47f14b73162a_story.html) And new elections would be expected to give about the same results as this past election. So what is going to happen? ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2017, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-federal-elections-september-2017/784769/51 "2017-11-20T23:05:40Z")
Does anyone know if the AfD has been losing support since the last election? If they have, that would make new elections worth calling. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-federal-elections-september-2017/784769/52 "2017-11-22T00:42:25Z")
As of now, this FT poll tracker isn’t paywalled > **[THe @ft German political poll tracker](https://ig.ft.com/germany-poll-tracker/)** > > How popular are Germany’s political parties right now? Even if the polls move a bit, there really are only a couple of options. Ether the FDP quits their grandstanding and joins a Jamaica coalition or the SPD joins another Grand Coalition. Otherwise, Merkel needs to attempt a minority government. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2017, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-federal-elections-september-2017/784769/53 "2017-11-24T20:53:47Z")
The SPD is now ‘willing to talk’ with Merkel. Perhaps a new grand coalition to avoid calling new elections and keep the AfD hobbled. > **[Germany’s Merkel gets a potential lifeline as center-left party says it’s...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/germanys-merkel-gets-a-potential-lifeline-as-center-left-party-says-its-willing-to-talk/2017/11/24/bb3bb0e2-d0f7-11e7-a1a3-0d1e45a6de3d_story.html?utm_term=.99363a141d4f)** > > The country’s impasse could be broken after the Social Democrats indicated that they would be open to a deal. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2017, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-federal-elections-september-2017/784769/54 "2017-11-25T18:03:55Z")
I wonder if the SPD will insist on someone other than Frau Merkel as Chancellor. Clearly they wouldn’t be the dominant party in the coalition, but it throw the Christian Democrats for a loop since there’s no obvious candidate to take over from her. Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2017, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-federal-elections-september-2017/784769/55 "2017-11-25T18:27:01Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > Dismissing people’s concerns and their voting for a party that addresses those concerns as ‘throwing a tantrum’ is exactly the attitude that pushes people to vote for extreme parties instead of mainstream parties. If the mainstream parties hold you in contempt for not agreeing with what their glorious leaders tell you you should want, why not vote for the people who might hate other people but don’t hate you? I’m not clear if you’re criticizing **Ibn Warraq** for being wrong, or for simply being impolitic. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2017, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-federal-elections-september-2017/784769/56 "2017-11-25T22:15:07Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > I wonder if the SPD will insist on someone other than Frau Merkel as Chancellor. Clearly they wouldn’t be the dominant party in the coalition, but it throw the Christian Democrats for a loop since there’s no obvious candidate to take over from her. > > Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk As a piece of raw political vandalism it shows style. But the CDU under not-Merkel will be a rudderless mess. SPD chaining itself to that smells to this Gringo a lot like the LibDem’s ghastly attempt at coalition with the confused pre-Brexit Cameron Tories. If this goes through the SPD will get tarred with the same brush used to paint the hapless and ineffectual post-Merkel CDU. This ploy might buy the current set of SPD leaders a couple years in cabinet, but after that: desolation. Utter desolation. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2017, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-federal-elections-september-2017/784769/57 "2017-11-26T02:56:08Z")
I didn’t see anybody mention this, but Petry left the AfD and set up her own party. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-federal-elections-september-2017/784769.md?page=2)