# German spelling revolt: Finally some Euros stand up for themselves **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 23, 2004, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-spelling-revolt-finally-some-euros-stand-up-for-themselves/265706 "2004-09-23T16:44:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-spelling-revolt-finally-some-euros-stand-up-for-themselves/265706/41 "2014-09-10T15:24:53Z")
> [@Capt\_B.Phart](#): > > Cite for its legitimacy? Sounds a lot like a deliberately insulting use to me, like… “Seppos” for Americans. Did not know about that so looked up it’s derivation in Urban Dictionary. Hilarious! Go ahead, Aussie’s and Brits, call us Seppos. It’s fucking funny. I’m not sure which I am insulted by _least_, ‘Honky’, ‘White Bread’ or ‘Seppo’. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-spelling-revolt-finally-some-euros-stand-up-for-themselves/265706/42 "2014-09-10T15:33:01Z")
Re-snark English English is government free American English has been a matter of political intervention “In August 1906, President of the United States Theodore Roosevelt had supported the plan, signing an executive order at his home in Oyster Bay, New York, mandating the use of reformed spelling in his official communications and messages to Congress.[12] Prof. Matthews stated that he had received no advance notice of the President’s order and had been taken by surprise when it was issued.[13]” > **[Simplified Spelling Board](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simplified_Spelling_Board)** > > The Simplified Spelling Board was an American organization created in 1906 to reform the spelling of the English language, making it simpler and easier to learn, and eliminating many of what were considered to be its inconsistencies. The board operated until 1920, the year after the death of its founding benefactor, who had come to criticize the progress and approach of the organization. > The Simplified Spelling Board was announced on March 11, 1906, with Andrew Carnegie funding the organization... ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-spelling-revolt-finally-some-euros-stand-up-for-themselves/265706/43 "2014-09-10T15:53:00Z")
+10 year old thread people. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-spelling-revolt-finally-some-euros-stand-up-for-themselves/265706/44 "2014-09-10T16:24:06Z")
_Ach. Ein Zombiethreadgesprungen!_ ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-spelling-revolt-finally-some-euros-stand-up-for-themselves/265706/45 "2014-09-10T17:53:04Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Aussie’s I find _this_ incredibly offensive. WHY WOULD YOU THINK THERE SHOULD BE AN APOSTROPHE THERE??? Seriously though, I know all those posts are old, but “Euros” is kind of annoying, and not comparable to “Dane” or “Swede”, which are the actual words for people from Denmark and Sweden respectively. Neither “Brit” nor “Britisher” is ideal. “Brit” is OK informally, but “Britisher” is just stupid. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-spelling-revolt-finally-some-euros-stand-up-for-themselves/265706/46 "2014-09-10T18:13:53Z")
If this thread is going to continue in this vein, it is being moved to IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-spelling-revolt-finally-some-euros-stand-up-for-themselves/265706/47 "2014-09-10T18:27:05Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > “Brit” is OK informally, but “Britisher” is just stupid. As are most Britishers. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-spelling-revolt-finally-some-euros-stand-up-for-themselves/265706/48 "2014-09-10T18:44:12Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > I find _this_ > Seriously though, I know all those posts are old, but “Euros” is kind of annoying, How about 'peans 😉 ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-spelling-revolt-finally-some-euros-stand-up-for-themselves/265706/49 "2014-09-10T19:32:24Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > And France, of course, has the Academie Francaise, where I believe they still guillotine you for spelling violations. 😛 But in fact, the last spelling reform (about the feminization of job names) was strongly opposed by the conservative Academie Française. But the academy has no normative power, while the government, like in this German example, can decide how words will be spelled in all official documents. Someone stated above that the government shouldn’t get involved and just follow “the consensus”. There’s no consensus on spelling. Spelling is dictated by educated people (people like dopers, for instance) who absolutely reject any change, regardless of how much more sense it would make. People (me included) are absurdly conservative about spelling (“you will take my weirdly spelled words from my dead cold hands”), so I think it’s a good idea that a gov chime in once in a while to impulse a useful/needed change that would never happen spontaneously. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-spelling-revolt-finally-some-euros-stand-up-for-themselves/265706/50 "2014-09-10T19:38:04Z")
> [@kellner](#): > > As I said, we don’t. It is a guideline that is only binding for official institutions. This includes the education system. This way all students in the German speaking countries will learn the same rules in school. In your private writing you can use any spelling you like. Up to the reform this was done by declaring one particular dictionary “official” (in the sense already described,) but this preference ended with the reform. > > Up to the creation of the second German empire in the late 19th century, spelling varied from state to state, but after unification efforts to harmonize the spelling started. “all students in the German speaking countries will learn the same rules in school.” - So are you saying that the spellings mandated by the German government have also been imposed upon Austria and Switzerland? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-spelling-revolt-finally-some-euros-stand-up-for-themselves/265706/51 "2014-09-10T19:38:43Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > There are, so far as I know, rules on naming in Denmark and France plus some others that I am not sure of. Sorry for generalizing “Germany, Denmark, France, and several other European countries that I’m not sure of” into “European.” Bad, racist me. In France, you were only allowed to use traditional first names until about 15 years ago. Since then you can name your child the way you like, unless the name is deemed harmful to him. In which case, the civil registry officer notify the court, which decide upon the issue. I never had any issue with that, by the way. It’s intended to protect the interests of the child, and I’m fully convinced that the interests of the child should prevail over the “right” of the parents to name him any laughable name they like. Defending parent’s rights in this case seems a very weird stance to me. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-spelling-revolt-finally-some-euros-stand-up-for-themselves/265706/52 "2014-09-10T19:58:40Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > “all students in the German speaking countries will learn the same rules in school.” - So are you saying that the spellings mandated by the German government have also been imposed upon Austria and Switzerland? Look, this is an old old thread but basically several German speaking nations worked together to establish basic, common norms in spelling to facilitate communication. **acsenray** proceeded to object strenuously 8 years later. ---
**Author:** ![Wakinyan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wakinyan/32/352_2.png) [@Wakinyan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wakinyan)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-spelling-revolt-finally-some-euros-stand-up-for-themselves/265706/53 "2014-09-10T21:43:54Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > \*\*CBP:\*\*The government should not be in charge of deciding what counts as an “acceptable” name.) > [@Grey](#): > > +10 year old thread people. Too bad, **Grey** , otherwise I would have asked \*\*Kimstu \*\*if it would be OK for a fellow to name the child **Lisa Marie Cocksucker Anderson** , and if not, who would say, like, “Uhm, no”? ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-spelling-revolt-finally-some-euros-stand-up-for-themselves/265706/54 "2014-09-10T22:59:39Z")
I would like to draw **Acsenray** ’s attention, also, to the fact that in the 10 years since this thread was first created, “Der Spiegel” (at least) has gone back on their decision to use the “old” spelling, and right now they use the one adopted in 1996. I speak some German and I have access to “Der Spiegel” where I live – I have checked the magazine and it seems to me that it complies with the “new” ortography. So it seems that, without making much of a fuss, they backtracked on their decision. I guess that they decided “not to stand for themselves”, hm? Or perhaps they ended up feeling that their decision was silly and that the implementation of a spelling that was created as a consensus among the German-speaking countries was not an unreasonable act of tyranny against the common people. Or perhaps the 18 years that have passed since that reform was adopted has been enough time for people to get used to those spelling rules. Who knows. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-spelling-revolt-finally-some-euros-stand-up-for-themselves/265706/55 "2014-09-11T03:42:47Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > But in fact, the last spelling reform (about the feminization of job names) was strongly opposed by the conservative Academie Française. But the academy has no normative power, while the government, like in this German example, can decide how words will be spelled in all official documents. Doesn’t sound so different from those manuals of style which are so abundant in English. It just happens to be the government’s manual rather than Le Figaro’s. > [@clairobscur](#): > > In France, you were only allowed to use traditional first names until about 15 years ago. Since then you can name your child the way you like, unless the name is deemed harmful to him. In which case, the civil registry officer notify the court, which decide upon the issue. Same for Spain. In our case, the old rule also stated that you couldn’t give your child a name not in Spanish if there was a Spanish-language equivalent (so, no calling your child Jean (French), but also not Joan (Catalan): it had to be Juan). This got changed to “no foreign names” and eventually struck out, but in any case you had always been able to give your child a non-Spanish name so long as the registrar didn’t happen to recognize it as having a Spanish-language equivalent (all those Jennifers born with the old rule still in place should theoretically have been Ginebras). I can see wanting to name your child Giancarlo after your father, but I also agree that people shouldn’t be able to call a kid Nutella. ---
**Author:** ![kellner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c2a13f/32.png) [@kellner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kellner)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-spelling-revolt-finally-some-euros-stand-up-for-themselves/265706/56 "2014-09-11T05:00:04Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > “all students in the German speaking countries will learn the same rules in school.” - So are you saying that the spellings mandated by the German government have also been imposed upon Austria and Switzerland? The standards developed by an international commission have subsequently been implemented by the relevant jurisdcitions in the German-speaking countries: states in Germany, cantons in Switzerland, federal government in Austria etc.) As far as I know, by now the only holdout is the Swiss Canton of Bern. The German government had very little to do with all this. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-spelling-revolt-finally-some-euros-stand-up-for-themselves/265706/57 "2014-09-11T07:58:08Z")
Hey! “Euro” is OUR word! It’s only okay if we use it, you Yanks. Kidding aside, I wasn’t aware that the countries using English didn’t use any sort of formal body to standardize the spelling, and it clearly hasn’t affected the health of the language, which makes look our own several organisations like a big waste of the taxpayer’s money. ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-spelling-revolt-finally-some-euros-stand-up-for-themselves/265706/58 "2014-09-11T09:06:17Z")
> [@Sr\_Siete](#): > > Hey! “Euro” is OUR word! It’s only okay if we use it, you Yanks. > > Kidding aside, I wasn’t aware that the countries using English didn’t use any sort of formal body to standardize the spelling, and it clearly hasn’t affected the health of the language, which makes look our own several organisations like a big waste of the taxpayer’s money. Well, I cannot talk about other countries, but the Real Academia of the Spanish Language was created in 1713, the Académie Française in 1635, and the Accademia della Crusca (for Italian) has existed since **1583** (!!) I would say that those are more than organisations – they have become traditions. Besides… I am checking the budget for the Spanish Real Academia de la Lengua for 2014. It amounts to the whopping sum of € 1,618,910 – roughly € 0.10 (that is, 10 eurocent) per paying taxpayer in Spain. That … Doesn’t strike me as a “big waste of taxpayer’s money”, especially when other items in the budget are easily 100 times bigger. Paying 10 eurocent more in order to maintain and keep an institution that has existed for the last 300 years doesn’t seem to me like a big sacrifice. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-spelling-revolt-finally-some-euros-stand-up-for-themselves/265706/59 "2014-09-11T09:17:35Z")
> [@JoseB](#): > > Well, I cannot talk about other countries, but the Real Academia of the Spanish Language was created in 1713, the Académie Française in 1635, and the Accademia della Crusca (for Italian) has existed since **1583** (!!) > > I would say that those are more than organisations – they have become traditions. > > Besides… I am checking the budget for the Spanish Real Academia de la Lengua for 2014. It amounts to the whopping sum of € 1,618,910 – roughly € 0.10 (that is, 10 eurocent) per paying taxpayer in Spain. > > That … Doesn’t strike me as a “big waste of taxpayer’s money”, especially when other items in the budget are easily 100 times bigger. Paying 10 eurocent more in order to maintain and keep an institution that has existed for the last 300 years doesn’t seem to me like a big sacrifice. That… that doesn’t sound at all like a good reason to maintain ANYTHING. We aren’t keeping the telegraph towers or steam engine factories just out of tradition, are we? And if English can thrive and prosper without an Academy, I think we could live without Recua deciding whether “blog” is an acceptable word or not, frankly. ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-spelling-revolt-finally-some-euros-stand-up-for-themselves/265706/60 "2014-09-11T09:33:37Z")
> [@Sr\_Siete](#): > > That… that doesn’t sound at all like a good reason to maintain ANYTHING. We aren’t keeping the telegraph towers or steam engine factories just out of tradition, are we? > > And if English can thrive and prosper without an Academy, I think we could live without Recua deciding whether “blog” is an acceptable word or not, frankly. Frankly speaking, when maintaining something that has existed for 300 years is so _cheap_, I don’t mind keeping it. Steam engine factories and telegraph towers would have been substantially more expensive to maintain, after all. Also, getting rid of things just because they are “old” and there are “better” substitutes… Sometimes it is not prudent. But this is outside of the purview of this thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-spelling-revolt-finally-some-euros-stand-up-for-themselves/265706.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-spelling-revolt-finally-some-euros-stand-up-for-themselves/265706.md?page=4)