# German woman on tv: "Southern Europeans are not as disciplined as us" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 28, 2011, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-woman-on-tv-southern-europeans-are-not-as-disciplined-as-us/583545 "2011-05-28T08:21:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-woman-on-tv-southern-europeans-are-not-as-disciplined-as-us/583545/81 "2011-07-12T04:43:19Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > So what is the most important element of Germany’s economy? > > Jackboots. Exports, obviously–specifically high-end consumer and B2B products and services, which in recent years has given that country an enviable trade surplus, along with an equally enviably low unemployment rate. Granted some of those numbers may be fudged to include temporary and contract workers, but I’m sure the true rate is nowhere near that of Spain or even the U.S. **Mod hat on** And lay off about the jackboots. Given the topic of the thread, I do understand it’s tempting to allude to the less savory aspects of German history, but it’s not appropriate in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-woman-on-tv-southern-europeans-are-not-as-disciplined-as-us/583545/82 "2011-07-12T10:18:57Z")
There is an entirely un-racist way to cover this. First, one says right out that there is no biological or inherent basis for the difference, but clearly cultural and established political culture count. And the southern Mediterranean countries have much weaker institutions. We all forget that every one but Italy was some kind of crappy military dictatorship will into the 1970s - that is in my living memory. The public work ethic is still weak. And they still have hidebound rules that old fascist dictatorships and socialist crapmiesters passed making them vastly less productive than Northern europe that has reformed over the years. So yeah, Southern Europe is less disciplined and is demonstrably by the business and economic data, less efficient. And the Greeks, they have public culture of being lying scum who winkwink at open tax dodgery and grotesque feather-bedding. At least the Spanish reformed, I have a lot of sympathy for Spain. ---
**Author:** ![RaleighRally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@RaleighRally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaleighRally)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-woman-on-tv-southern-europeans-are-not-as-disciplined-as-us/583545/83 "2011-07-12T13:35:31Z")
Spectre warned me not to generalize and now he bumps and old zombie on a topic that might very well render me a new warning. I hope this is not a trap to get me banned…😉 Just to be on the safe side, I will show you how hardworking the Greeks truly are: > [@](#): > > The Groningen Growth & Development Centre has published a poll revealing that between 1995 and 2005, Greece was the country whose workers worked the most hours/year among European nations; Greeks worked an average of 1,900 hours per year, followed by Spaniards (average of 1,800 hours/year).[37] [Economy of Greece - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Greece) And not only the Greeks, but ALL Southern Europeans work much harder (and longer…) than the Germans: > [@](#): > > Southern Europeans work much harder and sometimes longer than the Germans, according to a study, supported by statistics, flies in the face of recent remarks by Angela Merkel in the middle of castigating the debt crisis of social laxity Greece, Spain and Portugal. [http://financesjournal.com/blogs/southern-europeans-worked-germans-4817.html](http://financesjournal.com/blogs/southern-europeans-worked-germans-4817.html) Do not for a second consider to take these statistics with a grain of salt! I am absolutely sure they have not included the daily Siesta in the work hours or in any other way distorted the statistic as was the case when Greece joined the Euro-zone. Not only are Greeks more hardworking, their morale on sexually liberated women seems to out beat even George W Bush: [Swedish women are met with disbelief in Greece](http://translate.google.se/translate?hl=en&sl=sv&u=http://www.svd.se/nyheter/inrikes/svenskor-mots-av-misstro-i-grekland_6092295.svd) > [@](#): > > Swedish Anna reported that she had been raped on the Greek holiday paradise of Samos 2008th But despite the injuries documented and sequence confirmed by Swedish doctors, the Greek authorities dropped the case. Instead they prosecuted Anna for having lied about the rape with the intent to obtain reparation. This incident sparked a diplomatic controversy between Sweden and Greece: [Greek diplomat was fired](http://translate.google.se/translate?hl=en&sl=sv&u=http://www.svd.se/nyheter/inrikes/svenskor-mots-av-misstro-i-grekland_6092295.svd) > [@](#): > > Someone sent a protest letter to the Greek embassy in Stockholm. > The response from a high diplomat said: “On the contrary, my friend, it’s you who should be ashamed of Swedish women’s behavior, on holiday in all parts of the world and with foreigners in their own country!” ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-woman-on-tv-southern-europeans-are-not-as-disciplined-as-us/583545/84 "2011-07-12T14:00:30Z")
The amount of hours you clock in isn’t always the best indication of how hard you’re working. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-woman-on-tv-southern-europeans-are-not-as-disciplined-as-us/583545/85 "2011-07-12T14:06:40Z")
> [@RaleighRally](#): > > Just to be on the safe side, I will show you how hardworking the Greeks truly are: > [Economy of Greece - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Greece) > > And not only the Greeks, but ALL Southern Europeans work much harder (and longer…) than the Germans: > [http://financesjournal.com/blogs/southern-europeans-worked-germans-4817.html](http://financesjournal.com/blogs/southern-europeans-worked-germans-4817.html) That’s pretty bloody laughable. Hours clocked in Greece are pretty fucking silly as a metric, from a country that fabricates its statistics. Of course the real question is **efficiency** , not number of hours clocked (and again given the enormous grey/black economies and low-value add in those areas, these are fairly meaningless. > [@](#): > > Not only are Greeks more hardworking, their morale on sexually liberated women seems to out beat even George W Bush: I don’t even know what the fuck this has to do with the lazy lying Greeks, but… ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-woman-on-tv-southern-europeans-are-not-as-disciplined-as-us/583545/86 "2011-07-12T14:08:11Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > The amount of hours you clock in isn’t always the best indication of how hard you’re working. Shhh! ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-woman-on-tv-southern-europeans-are-not-as-disciplined-as-us/583545/87 "2011-07-12T15:00:14Z")
> [@wmfellows](#): > > I don’t even know what the fuck this has to do with the lazy lying Greeks, but… Hey could you cut it with the fuck you attitude, maybe you think that it gives you a coolish blasé attitude but it’s just fucking tiresome and it’s beginning to tread on plain xenophobia. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-woman-on-tv-southern-europeans-are-not-as-disciplined-as-us/583545/88 "2011-07-12T15:11:29Z")
**ENOUGH!** I am aware that a number of the ethnic slurs that have been posted have been tongue in cheek or attempts at irony, however, the line is getting blurry and not everyone is reading them in the same way, resulting in other posters posting slurs as facts. \*\*EVERYONE will stop posting ethnic slurs in this thread, regardless of motive. [/Moderating]\*\* ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-woman-on-tv-southern-europeans-are-not-as-disciplined-as-us/583545/89 "2011-07-12T17:52:26Z")
Southern Europeans are not as disciplined as we. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-woman-on-tv-southern-europeans-are-not-as-disciplined-as-us/583545/90 "2011-07-12T19:03:10Z")
Maybe it’s just cultural differences. I recall reading in Orwell’s [_Homage to Catalonia_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homage_to_Catalonia) how nothing in Spain ever gets done when scheduled, and trains always come late except on the rare occasions when they come (and depart) early, and _manana_ usually means “never.” “In principle I admire the Spanish for not sharing our Northern time-neurosis, but unfortunately I share it myself.” ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-woman-on-tv-southern-europeans-are-not-as-disciplined-as-us/583545/91 "2011-07-12T19:55:54Z")
A couple of years ago I was a visiting researcher at a university in Copenhagen. The group was pretty evenly split between southern (Greek, Italian, Maltese, Spanish) and northern (mostly Scandinavian). Good natured ribbing about the cultural differences were pretty common - the southerners were lazy and talked with their hands and drank too much wine, the northerners were officious and uptight and drank too much beer. All in good fun though - everyone ate lunch together and went to the bar on Friday. That being said, this thread is a total trainwreck. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-woman-on-tv-southern-europeans-are-not-as-disciplined-as-us/583545/92 "2011-07-12T23:38:19Z")
> [@kenetic](#): > > That being said, this thread is a total trainwreck. :mad: Hit is in needink of a bit of ze **discipline,** ja? ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2011, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-woman-on-tv-southern-europeans-are-not-as-disciplined-as-us/583545/93 "2011-07-17T09:06:28Z")
I was going to make a post here expressing my opinion but hey ! Its a nice day, I’m going out, maybe I’ll post this afternoon, maybe Manana, maybe never. ---
**Author:** ![pompeybear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8c91f0/32.png) [@pompeybear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pompeybear)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2011, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-woman-on-tv-southern-europeans-are-not-as-disciplined-as-us/583545/94 "2011-07-17T18:37:37Z")
I’m not sure how this any any different than the way East Coast/West Coast Americans percieve each other. I’ve worked in several large businesses and in every one of them the east coasters complained about the work ethic of the “California Office”. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2011, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-woman-on-tv-southern-europeans-are-not-as-disciplined-as-us/583545/95 "2011-07-17T19:38:39Z")
> [@cpastu](#): > > I’m not sure how this any any different than the way East Coast/West Coast Americans percieve each other. I’ve worked in several large businesses and in every one of them the east coasters complained about the work ethic of the “California Office”. That’s nothing, next to how both coasts are perceived by the people of the “Great Flyover.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/german-woman-on-tv-southern-europeans-are-not-as-disciplined-as-us/583545.md?page=4)