# Germanwings flight crash - deliberate? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 26, 2015, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993 "2015-03-26T00:30:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993/61 "2015-03-26T14:07:27Z")
I have not been following this story, and I have not read the thread. I heard on the radio yesterday morning that the aircraft was in a controlled descent before crashing. ‘Controlled flight into the terrain’, as they say. Not having followed the story, this was the first thing I heard about it other than ‘An airliner crashed in the mountains, a bunch of people were killed, pieces of wreckage no bigger than a car, x-number of people killed, three Americans killed, remains will be difficult to recover.’ My first thought at hearing the aircraft came down in a controlled descent was that either both pilots were incapacitated, or one of them deliberately crashed the aircraft. ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993/62 "2015-03-26T14:08:46Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Another idea- give the pilot and copilot remote control entry keys to the cockpit which can’t be overridden. Before the flight, the techs on the ground make sure the keys are programmed for the door for that particular plane. Pilot leaves the cockpit, he carries his remote with him. Then what happens if the pilot/co-pilot gets ambushed by a terrorist when he leaves the cockpit and the terrorist gets the remote? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993/63 "2015-03-26T14:10:45Z")
> [@Canadjun](#): > > Then what happens if the pilot/co-pilot gets ambushed by a terrorist when he leaves the cockpit and the terrorist gets the remote? Then the passengers rise up and beat the snot out of the terrorist. ---
**Author:** ![Hermitian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hermitian/32/470_2.png) [@Hermitian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermitian)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993/64 "2015-03-26T14:16:55Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > That’s three extremely unusual aviation disasters in a year’s time. > First MH370, then MH17, now this. The only logical explanation: Aliens. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993/65 "2015-03-26T14:24:09Z")
urine collection devices and astronaut diapers will prevent disasters. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993/66 "2015-03-26T14:33:25Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Not after 9/11. Before then, most hijackings were for escape or ransom. Now, they are very likely to be for a terror-murder or elaborate suicide. Even serial killing of passengers and cabin crew would be preferable to having the whole plane downed, possibly into a populated zone. > > “The cold equations.” I think \*\*Richard Pearse’s \*\*“they” might have meant the FA opening the door with the FA’s keys, not the pilots. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993/67 "2015-03-26T14:50:03Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I think \*\*Richard Pearse’s \*\*“they” might have meant the FA opening the door with the FA’s keys, not the pilots. Yes. I think it’s nice to think that some 24 year old flight attendant who gets a bit nervous in turbulence would give up his or her life to protect the lives of the passengers, but I suspect the reality is, particularly when given assurances that the terrorist really just wants to land somewhere and demand a ransom, that the survival instinct will kick in and they will open the door. ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993/68 "2015-03-26T14:58:12Z")
The dominoes have begun to fall. [Effective immediately, Norwegian Air is implementing a policy of two people in the cockpit at all times.](http://www.nrk.no/norge/endrer-rutinene-etter-flystyrt-1.12282226) ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993/69 "2015-03-26T15:07:49Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > Yes. I think it’s nice to think that some 24 year old flight attendant who gets a bit nervous in turbulence would give up his or her life to protect the lives of the passengers, but I suspect the reality is, particularly when given assurances that the terrorist really just wants to land somewhere and demand a ransom, that the survival instinct will kick in and they will open the door. If the pilots have locked the door, I don’t think any key or code will open it from the cabin - for precisely this kind of scenario. The only threat can be made to cabin occupants, as leverage to get flight crew to cooperate. If they won’t… some people may die, but as the game is played these days, if they do… everyone dies, including any unlucky people on the ground. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993/70 "2015-03-26T15:51:28Z")
The only unusual thing I see in the news about the co-pilot is that he interrupted his pilot training for several months. Doesn’t say why. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993/71 "2015-03-26T15:53:33Z")
Dick move, Andreas. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993/72 "2015-03-26T15:57:37Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > If the pilots have locked the door, I don’t think any key or code will open it from the cabin - for precisely this kind of scenario. The only threat can be made to cabin occupants, as leverage to get flight crew to cooperate. If they won’t… some people may die, but as the game is played these days, if they do… everyone dies, including any unlucky people on the ground. I was responding to a suggestion that a flight attendant should be entrusted with a key so they can open the door in the case of a pilot gone rogue. Aside from that, some doors can be unlocked from the cabin provided you know the code and, more importantly, if the pilots do nothing. This allows you into the flightdeck if the pilots have become incapacitated but doesn’t solve the problem of a rogue pilot. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993/73 "2015-03-26T16:07:28Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > If someone wanted to disguise a suicide crash as an accident, might he “talk for the black boxes” - say words simulating an onboard emergency? Make a fake Mayday call (“Mayday, Mayday, decompression”), make fake shouts of distress or alarm? Why bother, if he’s going to be dead? I just can’t wrap my head around the psychology of an act like this, assuming it’s not ideological. You want to commit suicide, so you decide to take 150 other people with you - why? You try to cover up the fact that it’s suicide - why? You do all this in an environment where you know there will be detailed recordings left behind of what you did - why? I realize that perhaps logical thinking would not be forefront at a time like this, but it doesn’t hang together as something anyone would actually do. Since the evidence so far is pointing to an intended action, I am going to put my money on ideological motivation of some kind. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993/74 "2015-03-26T16:10:34Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > You try to cover up the fact that it’s suicide - why? Perhaps for insurance policy reasons, I think many life insurance policies will not pay out in the event of a suicide but would pay for an accidental death. ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993/75 "2015-03-26T16:14:48Z")
On the A320 the door can be opened in normal mode with a code from outside (in case the pilot is incapacitated). The pilot then has the option to manually override the unlock command. It should be possible to conclusively tell from the CVR if this is what happened. The reinforced door is doing its job against cockpit intrusion. Some protocol changes are probably in order but there is no technical solution to protect the plane from the flight crew. I think a second person in the cockpit presents a useful psychological barrier to this problem. ---
**Author:** ![Mithras](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f04885/32.png) [@Mithras](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mithras)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993/76 "2015-03-26T16:16:06Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > Why bother, if he’s going to be dead? > > I just can’t wrap my head around the psychology of an act like this, assuming it’s not ideological. You want to commit suicide, so you decide to take 150 other people with you - why? You try to cover up the fact that it’s suicide - why? You do all this in an environment where you know there will be detailed recordings left behind of what you did - why? I realize that perhaps logical thinking would not be forefront at a time like this, but it doesn’t hang together as something anyone would actually do. Since the evidence so far is pointing to an intended action, I am going to put my money on ideological motivation of some kind. What did he do that shows he was trying to cover anything up? ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993/77 "2015-03-26T16:20:15Z")
I hate these fucking assholes who want to die but decide to take others with them, this motherfucker just destroyed 150 lives and their families because he apparently didn’t value his own life, maybe as time goes on we will learn more about the pilot and if he indeed had any past depression or something that would have been a red flag. Seriously if you wanna die just shoot yourself, don’t take others with you. I know this is conjecture and maybe we will find out later he did this for some other reason besides simple suicide, I wonder if they’ll be able to find anything on a personal computer or something to find some kind of insight into why he did this. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993/78 "2015-03-26T16:34:49Z")
> [@Mithras](#): > > What did he do that shows he was trying to cover anything up? It was a hypothetical, not related to this actual-life incident. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993/79 "2015-03-26T16:36:21Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > Why bother, if he’s going to be dead? > > I just can’t wrap my head around the psychology of an act like this, assuming it’s not ideological. You want to commit suicide, so you decide to take 150 other people with you - why? You try to cover up the fact that it’s suicide - why? You do all this in an environment where you know there will be detailed recordings left behind of what you did - why? I realize that perhaps logical thinking would not be forefront at a time like this, but it doesn’t hang together as something anyone would actually do. Since the evidence so far is pointing to an intended action, I am going to put my money on ideological motivation of some kind. Well, suicides are usually impulse decisions, not something that is meticulously planned out. I can understand feeling overwhelmed by life or whatever other problems he might have had, but I can’t fathom a mindset that would lead to you deciding to kill yourself, and take 150 innocent people with you. The copilot was either a collossal asshole, or has was idealogically motivated (ie, lone-wolf terrorist). ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993/80 "2015-03-26T16:53:56Z")
The Americans generally do not release aircraft crash information until they have everything figured out. These guys seem to have heard the cockpit recorder and rushed out to talk to the press. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993.md?page=5)