# Germanwings flight crash - deliberate? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 26, 2015, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993 "2015-03-26T00:30:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993/121 "2015-03-27T01:00:25Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Satellite link. Ah ok, is there a cite for the info? Edit: Never mind, I found it. Not a satellite link, just the transponder data (not a significant difference, just saying.) ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993/122 "2015-03-27T01:05:09Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > How so? Isn’t my comment self-explanatory? They are reaching a bit, but it’s a legitimate position nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993/123 "2015-03-27T01:05:41Z")
> [@rsa](#): > > I also wondered how they would know that the co-pilot set the altitude to descend to 100 feet. I finally read that apparently this setting is part of the data transmitted by the transponder. News to me. Yeah I didn’t know that either. I knew there was various data sent for an ADSB aircraft, but didn’t know it included the selected altitude. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993/124 "2015-03-27T01:08:38Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > the only rational explanation was a stroke or heart attack but that I believe has been discounted. He deliberately set the plane to descend to 100 feet. Under no circumstances would that be done in the mountains. It’s a guaranteed destruction of the plane. He then went on to disable the electronic door lock with a 5 minute override. The whole thing was timed to destroy the plane. > > The co-pilot took a year off from training for psychological reasons. He then went on to complete his training. I really don’t see any other possibility at this point. It was a deliberate act done with forethought. The reason appears to be psychological. Why set to descent as opposed to pushing the stick down/forward? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993/125 "2015-03-27T01:09:39Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Dumb question; as this is a low-cost carrier owned by Lufthansa, why is the name Germanwings and not, say, Deutsch Flügeln (which is how Google translates the name into German)? In short, why did they give it an English name? Maybe “Germanwings” appeals more to a broader European, non-German market of passengers. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993/126 "2015-03-27T01:17:42Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > Ah ok, is there a cite for the info? > > Edit: Never mind, I found it. Not a satellite link, just the transponder data (not a significant difference, just saying.) No, [satellite link](http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/03/26/uk-france-crash-airbus-lufthansa-idUKKBN0MK0ZO20150326). FlightRadar24, an online air tracking service that uses satellite data, said it had found evidence the autopilot was abruptly switched from cruising altitude to just 100 feet, the lowest possible setting. The plane crashed at about 6,000 feet. “Between 09:30:52 and 09:30:55 you can see that the autopilot was manually changed from 38,000 feet to 100 feet and 9 seconds later the aircraft started to descend, probably with the ‘open descent’ autopilot setting,” Fredrik Lindahl, chief executive of the Swedish tracking service, said. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993/127 "2015-03-27T01:20:59Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Maybe “Germanwings” appeals more to a broader European, non-German market of passengers. Yes. Plus, in Germany, English use is on the rise: [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/universityeducation/9790250/Why-British-students-are-heading-to-Germany.html](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/universityeducation/9790250/Why-British-students-are-heading-to-Germany.html) I’m lucky to be a native English speaker. ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993/128 "2015-03-27T01:21:25Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > No, [satellite link](http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/03/26/uk-france-crash-airbus-lufthansa-idUKKBN0MK0ZO20150326). FlightRadar24, an online air tracking service that uses satellite data, said it had found evidence the autopilot was abruptly switched from cruising altitude to just 100 feet, the lowest possible setting. The plane crashed at about 6,000 feet… FlightRadar24 uses ADS-B (transponder) data. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993/129 "2015-03-27T01:24:29Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Why set to descent as opposed to pushing the stick down/forward? Airliners are highly automated. The majority of flight is done by computers. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993/130 "2015-03-27T01:37:19Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Why couldn’t it have just been a heart attack or stroke? Because the co pilot was heard breathing steadily all the way down. > [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > I understand exactly what you’re saying, but there’s a difference between informing and concluding. If a review by professionals sounds like one live, heavy-breathing person in the cockpit all the way to the end while another person pounds frantically on the cockpit door, telling us that does no harm. I’m willing to wait any length of time for the investigation and conclusion, but knowing a likely scenario (rather than the absolute mystery of the Malaysia flight) can hardly be called feeding media inappropriately. I agree. This seems like reasonable information to publish. And reasonable for Lufthansa to apologize and publicly express distress. > [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > I’m sure I read “hard” somewhere; it may not have been reliable. > > Two questions, though: are cockpit mikes sensitive enough to pick up “normal” breathing? Even from a headset? And wouldn’t “normal, steady breathing” be a little odd for a pilot of a craft rapidly losing altitude and wondering what a mountain goat was doing way up in the clouds? > > Doesn’t add up. It probably means he wasn’t surprised that the plane descended rapidly. It suggests intent. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993/131 "2015-03-27T01:42:31Z")
> [@Pedro](#): > > FlightRadar24 uses ADS-B (transponder) data. It uses the ADS-B satellite link. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993/132 "2015-03-27T01:51:20Z")
I keep thinking of that guy in Saskatchewan who just snapped one day and beheaded his seatmate on an intercity bus. Maybe the copilot snapped? Or maybe underlying problems, and he couldn’t hold it together anymore? ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993/133 "2015-03-27T01:52:35Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It uses the ADS-B satellite link. There is no such thing. ADS-B is airplane to receiver (ground or air). ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993/134 "2015-03-27T02:09:32Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > He then went on to disable the electronic door lock with a 5 minute override. The whole thing was timed to destroy the plane. Do we know this? Is there any possibility the lock or PIN pad mechanism malfunctioned or that the crew were simply given the wrong code? I realize that is EXTREMELY unlikely. But a lot of accidents have happened when a bunch of unlikely things happened all at once. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993/135 "2015-03-27T02:11:55Z")
> [@Pedro](#): > > There is no such thing. ADS-B is airplane to receiver (ground or air). ads b [satellite](http://www.globalstar.com/en/index.php?cid=6300&pk_campaign=ADSB&pk_kwd=website&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=vanity&utm_campaign=adsb) [link](http://www.icao.int/SAM/Documents/2014-SAMIG13/02%20NavCanada%20ADSB%20S.pdf). ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993/136 "2015-03-27T02:18:47Z")
> [@Alley\_Dweller](#): > > Do we know this? The only source is Lufthansa CEO saying it “seems to be true” that the co-pilot actively denied access to the captain. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993/137 "2015-03-27T02:20:23Z")
> [@Pedro](#): > > Isn’t my comment self-explanatory? No, I have no idea what you are talking about. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993/138 "2015-03-27T02:20:38Z")
> [@Alley\_Dweller](#): > > Do we know this? > > Is there any possibility the lock or PIN pad mechanism malfunctioned or that the crew were simply given the wrong code? > > I realize that is EXTREMELY unlikely. But a lot of accidents have happened when a bunch of unlikely things happened all at once. Space aliens could have beamed the copilot out of the plane. Anything’s possible. When you’re talking about the “Crew” there was a pilot in the cockpit breathing normally. No sign of physical distress. The descent was controlled. It had to be inputted into the FMS or skillfully done by the copilot. So either he inputted a deadly descent and became medically incapacitated in a way that kept him breathing normally but couldn’t speak or he deliberately kept the Captain out and crashed the plane. There are no alternative universes that work here. ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993/139 "2015-03-27T02:31:19Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Space aliens could have beamed the copilot out of the plane. Anything’s possible. > > When you’re talking about the “Crew” there was a pilot in the cockpit breathing normally. No sign of physical distress. The descent was controlled. It had to be inputted into the FMS or skillfully done by the copilot. So either he inputted a deadly descent and became medically incapacitated in a way that kept him breathing normally but couldn’t speak or he deliberately kept the Captain out and crashed the plane. There are no alternative universes that work here. I was not talking about the the flight controls. I was talking about the procedure to unlock the cockpit door. If you saw the video, there is a PIN pad outside the cockpit and there is an emergency code to gain access to the cockpit. What if the crew members that were locked out of the cockpit couldn’t get back in because the PIN pad was defective, the lock was defective, or they didn’t know the emergency code? I made no comment regarding how the autopilot was set to descend to 100 feet. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993/140 "2015-03-27T02:35:19Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > I keep thinking of that guy in Saskatchewan who just snapped one day and beheaded his seatmate on an intercity bus. Maybe the copilot snapped? Or maybe underlying problems, and he couldn’t hold it together anymore? well considering the copilot stopped flight training for a year because of psychological problems that would be a distinct possibility. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germanwings-flight-crash-deliberate/715993.md?page=8)