# Germany can force a woman to work as a prostitute? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 31, 2005, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-can-force-a-woman-to-work-as-a-prostitute/287507 "2005-01-31T01:45:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-can-force-a-woman-to-work-as-a-prostitute/287507/41 "2005-02-01T09:28:12Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > Reading between the lines, what seems to happen is this; the employer registers his vacancy on the database, indicating (presumably in standardised “tick-the-box” form) the skills, characteristics, etc of the job specification. The agency then compares this with the skills, characteristics, etc of the candidates on it’s books and, where there is a match, notifies the _candidates_ of the vacancy. The first the employer knows of an individual candidate is when the candidate contacts him to enquire about the job. > > Even if the employer could identify a candidate who could have applied for the job but didn’t, why on earth would he wish to “challenge” the candidate? Nobody wants to force an uninterested candidate to work for him. The employers’ interest is to ensure that the _agency_ circulates the vacancy to all the appropriate candidates who might be interested and, if the employer applies pressure anywhere, it will be there. Remember, as far as employers are concerned, this is a cheap way of advertising a job vacancy. That’s pretty much it, except that (the last time I had occasion to look at the employer side, which was some years ago) the employer got a feedback form to the effect of : “We have asked $name to apply for the position $position that you notified us on. Please return feedback to us: (box) $name was hired/(box) $name was not hired because…/(box) $name did not apply/…” As **UDS** inferred employers do not have an interest in coercing people to work for them - those from the normal job market. Of course the sex industry _does_ coerce prostitutes imported as illegal immigrants, but that’s another story entirely and has no connection with the benefits issue. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-can-force-a-woman-to-work-as-a-prostitute/287507/42 "2005-02-01T11:11:00Z")
Actually, two years ago, I was laid off and collecting unemployment benefits for about 7 months. I’m a computer programmer and there were far too few jobs going. I was hardly getting interviews even for contract work. Before my former employer laid me off, they would get 200 or 300 applications for one job. After about 5 months, I realized I couldn’t count on finding work as a programmer, so I started applying for clerical jobs, knowing I’d take a rather significant pay cut. When I received an offer, one of the things I was aware of was that I would lose my unemployment benefits if I didn’t. There were tons of jobs advertised in the Sunday paper, ranging from retail to engineering to high-level business and academic jobs. Given the time I had at my disposal, I only applied for jobs which I felt I could do well and had a chance at getting. When I lived in Hawaii, I was also laid off for a while. In Hawaii, you had to report to the unemployment office in person and, while I was there, I’d take advantage of their computerized listing of jobs and print out any likely looking ones. In Hawaii, you were required to apply for at least three jobs a week to keep receiving unemployment benefits. One week, I was told I might not recieve benefits because I hadn’t applied for three jobs. What had happened was, while I had printed out jobs from their database, I’d found better ones in the Sunday paper and applied for them instead. They grumbled and, as a compromise, I’d send a resume to at least one of the jobs I’d pulled from their database while continuing to apply for the better ones I’d seen elsewhere. I suspect this is a specious argument. Yes, in order to recieve unemployment benefits, I couldn’t turn down a job if I was offered it and I had to be actively seeking work. On the other hand, no one was forcing me to apply for let alone take a job as an automechanic or a nursing supervisor. Telemarketing jobs are advertised in the want ads, yet I never felt compelled or inclined to apply for one. If a person would rather not work as a prostitute, I see no reason why he or she should apply for the job. CJ ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-can-force-a-woman-to-work-as-a-prostitute/287507/43 "2005-02-01T16:55:25Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > Except in this case, instead of having a gun pointed at you and being threatened to be shot, the consequence is that nothing will happen to you and you’ll be completely ignored. You’d have to define “force” pretty loosely to call that a threat. I think I spelled it out a little more clearly in post #30. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-can-force-a-woman-to-work-as-a-prostitute/287507/44 "2005-02-01T17:05:58Z")
[Obligatory Snopes link](http://www.snopes.com/media/notnews/brothel.asp). > [@](#): > > The article merely presents that concept as a technical possibility under current law — it does not cite any actual cases of women losing their benefits over this issue, and it quotes representatives from employment agencies as saying that while it might be legally permissible to reduce unemployment benefits to women who have declined to accept employment as prostitutes, they (the agencies) would not actually do that. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-can-force-a-woman-to-work-as-a-prostitute/287507/45 "2005-02-01T17:08:07Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > They’re going to make the elderly work in the sex industry? I know prostitution is the oldest profession, but really… Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Domokun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c77e96/32.png) [@Domokun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Domokun)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-can-force-a-woman-to-work-as-a-prostitute/287507/46 "2005-02-01T17:20:00Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > They’re going to make the elderly work in the sex industry? I will resist the urge to post links. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-can-force-a-woman-to-work-as-a-prostitute/287507/47 "2005-02-01T17:58:38Z")
> [@](#): > > I think I spelled it out a little more clearly in post #30. So I guess we should be sympathizing with the pimp? After all, those bitches are always trying to hold back on his money. Don’t they realize if they don’t give him what he needs, he’ll be forced to get violent. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-can-force-a-woman-to-work-as-a-prostitute/287507/48 "2005-02-01T18:53:30Z")
This is just rubbish, I can’t find any German sources to this, don’t you think that German opposition parties would be having a field day on this ? Utter shite and typical of the Europhobe scare stories published by the _Daily Torygraph_ along with fears of Euro legislation amking straight bananas compulsory, and that British sausages are to be banned by some Brussels bureaucrat. Typical middle England xenophobia, and this publication caters to them. We’ve had similar stories in the UK before, although at a much milder level of sex industry, the Anne Summers chain is renowned for its products and was stopped from advertising in Jobcentres(state run employment agency - of a sort) Eventually the company won their case against a ban by arguing that other shops sell vibrators and are not on the list of employers deemed unsuitable for Jobcentres, however, its a somewhat unrewarding victory, as unwilling candidates are still not compelled to go there for interview, the jobs are advertised but no more than that. In any case the European Convention on Human rights, of which Germany is a signatory simply prohibits compelling someone into servitude, which this would be, it would also be in breach of Articles 3, 4 and 8 and 9. There is no way on earth that a state can compel a person, by action, coercion, deprivation or any other threat to work unwillingly in the sex industry. Let us debunk this shitty right wing propaganda now!!! Actually, its the far right wingers whose advocation of complete and total removal of controls over the market, and removal of social safety nets, who would be most likely to create the sort of situation where this could occur. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-can-force-a-woman-to-work-as-a-prostitute/287507/49 "2005-02-01T21:50:53Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > So I guess we should be sympathizing with the pimp? After all, those bitches are always trying to hold back on his money. Don’t they realize if they don’t give him what he needs, he’ll be forced to get violent. When come back, bring argument. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-can-force-a-woman-to-work-as-a-prostitute/287507/50 "2005-02-01T21:59:56Z")
**casdave** seems to be correct- here is what Snopes sez: > **[Brothel Jobs in Germany](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hot-jobs/)** > > Do women in Germany face the loss of unemployment benefits if they decline to accept work in brothels? We’ve been had. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-can-force-a-woman-to-work-as-a-prostitute/287507/51 "2005-02-02T01:59:46Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > [Or she could lose her unemployment benefits.](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/01/30/wgerm30.xml) > > While I am in favor of legalizing prostitution, methinks there is something wrong with a law that would require someone to work in a job they may morally object to. > > Exactly what goes on in German bars? :eek: > > I’m not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand, the woman is out of work and needs a job. On the other hand, I can’t see forcing women into prostitution if they don’t want to work as a prostitute. And what if a woman is married? Can she be penalized for turning down a brothel job because she’s married? I can’t see her Herr saying, “Wow, sweetie, you finally got a job! That’s terrific!” > > I guess if a business is legal, they should be allowed to advertise for employees, but forcing someone to take a job, any job, just because they’ve been out of work for a year smacks of involuntary servitude to me. > > Thoughts? You notice that none of the stories originate from a German paper. I would say that this is not true. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-can-force-a-woman-to-work-as-a-prostitute/287507/52 "2005-02-02T02:05:59Z")
Bah. This story has become ephemeral rubbish. Another line of spin. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-can-force-a-woman-to-work-as-a-prostitute/287507/53 "2005-02-02T03:19:40Z")
> [@](#): > > When come back, bring argument. When have answer, post it. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-can-force-a-woman-to-work-as-a-prostitute/287507/54 "2005-02-02T04:26:40Z")
> [@tschild](#): > > That’s pretty much it, except that (the last time I had occasion to look at the employer side, which was some years ago) the employer got a feedback form to the effect of : “We have asked $name to apply for the position $position that you notified us on. Please return feedback to us: (box) $name was hired/(box) $name was not hired because…/(box) $name did not apply/…” > > As **UDS** inferred employers do not have an interest in coercing people to work for them - those from the normal job market. Of course the sex industry _does_ coerce prostitutes imported as illegal immigrants, but that’s another story entirely and has no connection with the benefits issue. Thanks for the clarification. I can see where this will hit the news every once in awhile with some strange job postings. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-can-force-a-woman-to-work-as-a-prostitute/287507/55 "2005-02-02T10:48:42Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > **casdave** seems to be correct- here is what Snopes sez: > [http://www.snopes.com/media/notnews/brothel.asp](http://www.snopes.com/media/notnews/brothel.asp) > > We’ve been had. :eek: Speak for yourself, sir. I _told_ you the logistics wouldn’t work! (An engineer’s last words.) 😉 CJ ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-can-force-a-woman-to-work-as-a-prostitute/287507/56 "2005-02-02T11:41:07Z")
> [@ouryL](#): > > You notice that none of the stories originate from a German paper. > > I would say that this is not true. > **[Ein Job wie jeder andere](https://taz.de/!658905/)** > > Hartz IV macht‘s möglich: Die Vermittlung von langzeitarbeitslosen Frauen ins Rotlicht-Milieu. Rechtlich gibt es keine Untergrenze der Zumutbarkeit bei der Jobvermittlung. Arbeitsagenturen legen sich – noch – eine Selbstbeschränkung auf Anyway I should imagine it all is a result of inflexible rules and unthought-of of consequences. Nothing will come of it and no poor German fraulein will have to sell her young body to old and fat and bald (and German!) men. Though I do find it ironic in a poetic sort how the welfare-state finally reveals itself in all its glory: A Pimp. Sell your soul and freedom to the state and soon enough she’ll look to decide over your body as well. ---
**Author:** ![kellner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c2a13f/32.png) [@kellner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kellner)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-can-force-a-woman-to-work-as-a-prostitute/287507/57 "2005-02-02T12:38:44Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > [Ein Job wie jeder andere - taz.de](http://www.taz.de/pt/2004/12/18/a0077.nf/text) Yes, but for all those who can’t read the article, let me add that it doesn’t mention any specific case. It does say that wanted-ads were forwarded to women without referring to anyone in particular. According to the law the benefits can’t be cut if the unemployed person is “physically, intellectually or mentally not capable” of doing the job or there are “other important reasons” (plus further unrelated specific reasons) So far the job centers agreed that this covers prostitution. The spokesman of the Hamburg job center: “There are still morals and decency.” ---
**Author:** ![jeffh3000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/34f0e0/32.png) [@jeffh3000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jeffh3000)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-can-force-a-woman-to-work-as-a-prostitute/287507/58 "2005-02-02T23:32:19Z")
There are HUGE fallicies here First no one is being forced to work at anything. They just get an end to the free ride from the government after a whole year of not working and being healthy. Unemployment benefits don’t even last that long in the US, and our welfare system far less, and has similar requirements. Second Who exactly made the assumption that the only job a woman can find in Germany is as a prostitute? Just because it is legal doesn’t mean that anyone is being forced to do it. As we know this is basically an urban legend ---
**Author:** ![kellner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c2a13f/32.png) [@kellner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kellner)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-can-force-a-woman-to-work-as-a-prostitute/287507/59 "2005-02-02T23:57:20Z")
> [@jeffh3000](#): > > They just get an end to the free ride from the government after a whole year of not working and being healthy. Not even that. In the non-prostitution cases where it actually happens, there is a cut of 30% of the regular benefits for three months (for those who are 25 and older.) Of course at such a low level every cut is painful and the effects add up if you refuse more than one offer, but fortunately it is not so easy to lose all benefits. (However under 25 the cut is far more severe.) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-can-force-a-woman-to-work-as-a-prostitute/287507/60 "2005-02-03T01:38:56Z")
> [@jeffh3000](#): > > There are HUGE fallicies here > > First no one is being forced to work at anything. They just get an end to the free ride from the government after a whole year of not working and being healthy. Unemployment benefits don’t even last that long in the US, and our welfare system far less, and has similar requirements. > > Second Who exactly made the assumption that the only job a woman can find in Germany is as a prostitute? Just because it is legal doesn’t mean that anyone is being forced to do it. > > As we know this is basically an urban legend The first is somehwat wrong because your third point is completely correct. No one " gets an end to the free ride from the government" for this, as it hasn’t happened and ain’t gonna happen. I think some Mod needs to close this thread. This situaltion hasn’t happened and isn’t going to. We are debating an UL. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-can-force-a-woman-to-work-as-a-prostitute/287507.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-can-force-a-woman-to-work-as-a-prostitute/287507.md?page=4)