# Germany = San Antonio Spurs of international soccer? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 22, 2015, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-san-antonio-spurs-of-international-soccer/725848 "2015-07-22T02:48:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2015, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-san-antonio-spurs-of-international-soccer/725848/1 "2015-07-22T02:48:59Z")
Seems like a fair comparison - focus on team (“Die Mannschaft”) rather than superstars, emphasizes defense, has been one of the most consistently successful teams in international soccer, blue-collar approach, and even once had black-and-white uniforms? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2015, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-san-antonio-spurs-of-international-soccer/725848/2 "2015-07-22T03:54:12Z")
I disagree that they don’t have superstars. They just have top players in every position. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2015, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-san-antonio-spurs-of-international-soccer/725848/3 "2015-07-22T07:06:13Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > I disagree that they don’t have superstars. They just have top players in every position. He meant that the focus is on the team rather than the individual player. Its the German way…Klose, Muller, Podolski all seem better in the GNT than in their club sides. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2015, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-san-antonio-spurs-of-international-soccer/725848/4 "2015-07-22T12:25:22Z")
Muller has over 120 goals in 300 matches. While typically not leading the line. He’s won a Treble, multiple titles as well. Klose has typically scored at a goal every other game, except at Bayern, where he was employed as a substitute more often as . As has Podulski. You are right that the don’t typically have the absolute best player in the World. But they often have a player in every position who is one of the top 3/5 in the world for that position. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2015, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-san-antonio-spurs-of-international-soccer/725848/5 "2015-07-22T14:13:20Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Muller has over 120 goals in 300 matches. While typically not leading the line. He’s won a Treble, multiple titles as well. Klose has typically scored at a goal every other game, except at Bayern, where he was employed as a substitute more often as . As has Podulski. > > You are right that the don’t typically have the absolute best player in the World. But they often have a player in every position who is one of the top 3/5 in the world for that position. I agree with you but I also agree with Velocity. He made an analogy: The The SA Spurs and the German national Team. They are both highly successful sports teams and have world class athletes who sacrifice maximizing individual fame and accomplishment for the sake of the team. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2015, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-san-antonio-spurs-of-international-soccer/725848/6 "2015-07-22T14:56:39Z")
Well, a focus on the team and defense with international success can define Italy (esp in the mid 2000s) as well. So I dunno if Germany is unique there. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2015, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-san-antonio-spurs-of-international-soccer/725848/7 "2015-07-22T15:13:36Z")
Germany’s current team is more of an offensive power than they are defensive. I’m not sure if I’d say they have superstars or not. Where’s the cutoff in ranking? I think saying top 3-5 at every position is pretty generous. Other than Neuer, there’s nobody that’s dominant. Maybe Ozil or Schweinsteiger? Typically, just a lot of very very good players. ETA , actually, maybe top 5 at each position is about right. Reus, Kroos, Mueller… yeah, they’re up there. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2015, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-san-antonio-spurs-of-international-soccer/725848/8 "2015-07-22T16:42:21Z")
The Spurs title teams will end up with 4 HOFers. Maybe 5, depending on what Kawhi Leonard does. Has Germany ever won back to back titles? If so, they’re already not the Spurs. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2015, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-san-antonio-spurs-of-international-soccer/725848/9 "2015-07-22T18:25:00Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > The Spurs title teams will end up with 4 HOFers. Maybe 5, depending on what Kawhi Leonard does. > > Has Germany ever won back to back titles? If so, they’re already not the Spurs. 😃 Will the World Cup + Euro count? If so, wait a bit. It’s significantly harder to win back to back World Cups than it is to win back to back NBA championships. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2015, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-san-antonio-spurs-of-international-soccer/725848/10 "2015-07-22T22:52:38Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Germany’s current team is more of an offensive power than they are defensive. > > I’m not sure if I’d say they have superstars or not. Where’s the cutoff in ranking? I think saying top 3-5 at every position is pretty generous. Other than Neuer, there’s nobody that’s dominant. Maybe Ozil or Schweinsteiger? Typically, just a lot of very very good players. > > ETA , actually, maybe top 5 at each position is about right. Reus, Kroos, Mueller… yeah, they’re up there. You’d be hard-pressed to find a “best defenders in the world” list that doesn’t have Mats Hummels on it. A year or two ago Lahm would have been there as well. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-san-antonio-spurs-of-international-soccer/725848/11 "2015-07-23T03:13:32Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > You’d be hard-pressed to find a “best defenders in the world” list that doesn’t have Mats Hummels on it. A year or two ago Lahm would have been there as well. One player !=every defender in the top 5 in the world. Lahm’s been playing midfield for both Germany and Bayern for a while, no? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-san-antonio-spurs-of-international-soccer/725848/12 "2015-07-23T04:23:52Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > One player !=every defender in the top 5 in the world. > > Lahm’s been playing midfield for both Germany and Bayern for a while, no? He played DL in the last WC ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-san-antonio-spurs-of-international-soccer/725848/13 "2015-07-23T16:03:49Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > One player !=every defender in the top 5 in the world. Not trying to be snarky (hah!), but while I understand the symbol, I don’t understand the point. > [@](#): > > Lahm’s been playing midfield for both Germany and Bayern for a while, no? > [@madsircool](#): > > He played DL in the last WC IIRC he played both in the WC; he started midfield because that’s where he spent the year at Bayern, but the back line was crumbly and he got moved back. Now he’s not on the GMNT anymore, so he’s out of running. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-san-antonio-spurs-of-international-soccer/725848/14 "2015-07-28T20:01:57Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > Not trying to be snarky (hah!), but while I understand the symbol, I don’t understand the point. The claim was every player on Germany is top 5 at their position. If we assume that Hummels is top 5, that does not prove that assertion. ---
**Author:** ![Number](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/number/32/242_2.png) [@Number](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Number)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-san-antonio-spurs-of-international-soccer/725848/15 "2015-07-28T23:49:31Z")
So who are the [Spurs](Tottenham Hotspur F.C.) of American basketball? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-san-antonio-spurs-of-international-soccer/725848/16 "2015-07-29T00:32:51Z")
> [@Number](#): > > So who are the [Spurs](Tottenham Hotspur F.C.) of American basketball? Portland ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2015, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-san-antonio-spurs-of-international-soccer/725848/17 "2015-08-01T14:52:40Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > The claim was every player on Germany is top 5 at their position. If we assume that Hummels is top 5, that does not prove that assertion. Ah, that’s not the claim I was responding to; I was responding to… > [@](#): > > I’m not sure if I’d say they have superstars or not. Where’s the cutoff in ranking? I think saying top 3-5 at every position is pretty generous. Other than Neuer, there’s nobody that’s dominant. Maybe Ozil or Schweinsteiger? Typically, just a lot of very very good players. > > ETA , actually, maybe top 5 at each position is about right. Reus, Kroos, Mueller… yeah, they’re up there. …by adding another superstar, since so often defensive players are left off these lists. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Universe\_Lashes\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8797f3/32.png) [@The\_Universe\_Lashes\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Universe_Lashes_Out)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2015, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-san-antonio-spurs-of-international-soccer/725848/18 "2015-08-01T19:04:21Z")
The Spurs have been a lot more successful though. They are clearly the best franchise of the post-Jordan era, whereas Spain has won more recent trophies than Germany has. But it wouldn’t surprise me at all if Germany wins Euro 2016 and the 2018 World Cup, in which case they are definitely the dominant team in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Hiker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hiker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiker)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-san-antonio-spurs-of-international-soccer/725848/19 "2015-08-06T11:12:27Z")
> [@The\_Universe\_Lashes\_Out](#): > > The Spurs have been a lot more successful though. They are clearly the best franchise of the post-Jordan era, whereas Spain has won more recent trophies than Germany has. But it wouldn’t surprise me at all if Germany wins Euro 2016 and the 2018 World Cup, in which case they are definitely the dominant team in the world. It would surprise me. Winning two world championchips back to back is extremely rare. It has only been done twice (by Italy 1934/38 and Brazil 1958/62). Winning two world championchips back to back with a European championship in between would be a first. Germany are pretty good, but for that to happen a lot of things would have to go right for them. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-san-antonio-spurs-of-international-soccer/725848/20 "2015-08-06T20:17:20Z")
I question the premise that the Spurs don’t have superstars. They were “David Robinson, Tim Duncan and everyone else,” then “Tim Duncan and everyone else,” then “Duncan, Parker, Ginobili and everyone else.” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-san-antonio-spurs-of-international-soccer/725848.md?page=2)