# Germany To Extend Reactor Operations-Why? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 7, 2010, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-to-extend-reactor-operations-why/552984 "2010-09-07T22:54:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2010, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-to-extend-reactor-operations-why/552984/1 "2010-09-07T22:54:38Z")
I was reading the Germany has decided to extend the licenses of their nuclear power plants. I find thsi interesting, because they had decided to shut down their nukes-now they are realizing that there is no alternative (solar and wind power cannot fill the gap). When the nuclear plants are finally shut down, what will replace them? I can’t see Germany building dirty coal powered plants, so I suspect that the plan is to buy electricity from France…which is generated by nuclear plants. Germany has invested a ton of money in solar and wind-is this and admission that “green” power won’t work? ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-to-extend-reactor-operations-why/552984/2 "2010-09-11T01:35:16Z")
It’s not an admission that green power won’t work, it’s just an acknowledgment that it won’t be able to deliver the needed capacity as soon as they’d like. Not only should more alternative/renewable energy be online by 2025, but there will probably be a few million fewer Germans to consume it. With a stable or slowly declining population, they do get to enjoy a little breathing room which would be unimaginable in the States. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-to-extend-reactor-operations-why/552984/3 "2010-09-11T01:38:36Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > It’s not an admission that green power won’t work, it’s just an acknowledgment that it won’t be able to deliver the needed capacity as soon as they’d like. Solar and wind are just not that dense of an energy source and there’s only so much available. ---
**Author:** ![\_Undecided\_Adrian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/eada6e/32.png) [@\_Undecided\_Adrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/_Undecided_Adrian)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-to-extend-reactor-operations-why/552984/4 "2010-09-11T12:34:45Z")
The plan still is to replace nuclear power with renewable sources. I think he biggest potential for expansion is with offshore wind farms in the north sea and the Desertec project for solar power stations in northern Africa. That won’t be cheap, and it will require quite a bit of investment in HVDC lines and energy storage (e.g. pump storage facilities in Norway), but the political consensus is that it’s doable. ---
**Author:** ![WilliamWilsonsDoppelgaenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/df705f/32.png) [@WilliamWilsonsDoppelgaenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WilliamWilsonsDoppelgaenger)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-to-extend-reactor-operations-why/552984/5 "2010-09-11T20:39:14Z")
The actual cause for this change of plan was a change of government. The decision to abolish nuclear power plants in Germany very soon was made by a coalition of Social Democrats and the Green Party, the current government is a coalition of the Christian Democrats and the Free Democrats (lots of Democrats, huh?). The latter two have always supported nuclear power, while Social Democrats and especially the Greens are still strongly opposed to it. They claim that wind and solar power can replace it if we only try hard enough. Personally, I doubt that it would have worked according to their schedule (even remotely) without buying substantial amounts of electricity from nations that use nuclear power. Oh, and in fact Germany IS building new coal powered plants (although they are claimed to be not so dirty) to replace older ones. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-to-extend-reactor-operations-why/552984/6 "2010-09-11T20:53:09Z")
> [@WilliamWilsonsDoppelgaenger](#): > > The decision to abolish nuclear power plants in Germany very soon was made by a coalition of Social Democrats and the Green Party, the current government is a coalition of the Christian Democrats and the Free Democrats (lots of Democrats, huh?). Is that supposed to be a slam at American Democrats? You do realize that the names of political parties in one country don’t have any particular connection with those in another? By European standards, American Democrats are conservatives anyway. ---
**Author:** ![WilliamWilsonsDoppelgaenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/df705f/32.png) [@WilliamWilsonsDoppelgaenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WilliamWilsonsDoppelgaenger)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-to-extend-reactor-operations-why/552984/7 "2010-09-11T21:38:17Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > [@WilliamWilsonsDoppelgaenger](#): > > > > The decision to abolish nuclear power plants in Germany very soon was made by a coalition of Social Democrats and the Green Party, the current government is a coalition of the Christian Democrats and the Free Democrats (lots of Democrats, huh?). > > Is that supposed to be a slam at American Democrats? Relax, Trihs, it wasn’t meant as a slam at anyone (frankly, I don’t see how you get that idea). It just struck me while I was typing it that they all call themselves democrats of some sort. > [@](#): > > You do realize that the names of political parties in one country don’t have any particular connection with those in another? No, I didn’t realize that. Cause I’m an idiot. Thanks for enlightening me. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-to-extend-reactor-operations-why/552984/8 "2010-09-11T23:14:43Z")
> [@WilliamWilsonsDoppelgaenger](#): > > > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > > Is that supposed to be a slam at American Democrats? > > Relax, Trihs, it wasn’t meant as a slam at anyone (frankly, I don’t see how you get that idea). It just struck me while I was typing it that they all call themselves democrats of some sort. > > > [@](#): > > > > You do realize that the names of political parties in one country don’t have any particular connection with those in another? > > No, I didn’t realize that. Cause I’m an idiot. Thanks for enlightening me. My apologies for offending you over something you apparently didn’t mean. But I do run into people who think like that all the time, so it was a natural assumption. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-to-extend-reactor-operations-why/552984/9 "2010-09-11T23:26:23Z")
Thanks for the replies…very informative. Another question: will the German reactor manufacturers still be making nuclear plants for export? Personally, I see wind and solar as totally impracticable-we will have to move to nuclear power, if we are to ever reduce CO2 emissions substantially. I think the French made the right move (to nuclear power). ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-to-extend-reactor-operations-why/552984/10 "2010-09-11T23:41:51Z")
As mentioned by **WilliamWilsonsDoppelgaenger** it is not a reversal of policy by the same administration but by a different one - a black/yellow coalition’s change of a red/green coalition’s policies. The stated reasons are energy policy but it’s really because the owners of the plants (the big utility companies) have more influence on the present administration (while the small, municipial, utilities have protested the change). The advantages of the changes to the plant owners is partly being able to use their plants for longer (they have agreed with the government on a levy that pays part of these profits to the federal budget), but probably more importantly a financial one: the plant owners’ accountants have made huge provisions for decommissioning cost which they could deduct from taxable profits, i.e. there are € billions of yet-untaxed profits that the plant owning companies have been able to invest elsewhere. When plants are going to be decommissioned these provisions have to be liquidated i.e. spent on decommissioning or, for any balance not spent for that, accounted for as taxable profits. That’s why some older plants have been operating at partial load in the last years to hold off decommissioning until a favourable parliamentary majority came to power. ---
**Author:** ![\_Undecided\_Adrian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/eada6e/32.png) [@\_Undecided\_Adrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/_Undecided_Adrian)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-to-extend-reactor-operations-why/552984/11 "2010-09-11T23:48:12Z")
I don’t think German companies still work on nuclear power. Siemens worked on the EPR together with the French, but they quit the joint venture afaik. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2010, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germany-to-extend-reactor-operations-why/552984/12 "2010-09-12T02:03:51Z")
They’re sticking with nuclear because all those solar cells along the highway are landfill in 25 years whereas a nuclear power plant has a longer life span and can produce electricity at night.