# Germaphobes and hygeine nazis: Why? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 17, 2010, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germaphobes-and-hygeine-nazis-why/564539 "2010-12-17T18:35:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germaphobes-and-hygeine-nazis-why/564539/61 "2010-12-19T03:13:57Z")
It’s nice though to clean your hands off if they get sticky (candy, for example) and you can’t get to a sink at the moment. **guizot** – no, OCD is an actual disorder. It’s not just little quirks. (Although nowadays mine tends to manifest itself that way – like I’ll arrange my M&Ms by color, for example. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germaphobes-and-hygeine-nazis-why/564539/62 "2010-12-19T03:15:42Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Hand sanitizer doesn’t do anything, by the way. Just FYI. It’s a total scam. This is completely untrue, just FYI. ---
**Author:** ![Zulema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/db5fbb/32.png) [@Zulema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zulema)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germaphobes-and-hygeine-nazis-why/564539/63 "2010-12-19T03:29:18Z")
I seriously don’t see cleaning doorknobs as being especially freakish. I clean doorknobs and my desk phone at the office when I know someone is sick and occasionally when no one is. I sit by the bathroom and know for an absolute fact who does and does not wash their hands. I also know who sneezes and coughs onto their hands instead of their elbow. Just because germs are good doesn’t mean I want to catch everything that’s going around. I still manage to catch a couple of immune boosting colds each year in spite of this. At home I wash the doorknobs when I’m dusting and the bathroom ones when I’m cleaning the bathrooms. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germaphobes-and-hygeine-nazis-why/564539/64 "2010-12-19T03:45:32Z")
Hand sanitizers are much better at killing germs than soap and water. Buy a brand that’s at least 60% alcohol. I don’t use the stuff but that’s what I’ve read. ---
**Author:** ![ClaytonThroop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@ClaytonThroop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ClaytonThroop)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germaphobes-and-hygeine-nazis-why/564539/65 "2010-12-19T08:11:55Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > Hand sanitizers are much better at killing germs than soap and water. Buy a brand that’s at least 60% alcohol. > > I don’t use the stuff but that’s what I’ve read. The CDC disagrees with the first thing you said - proper hand washing is certainly the better of the two options. I’ve also heard that hand washing is superior quite specifically by those in the medical and food service communities (when doing some market research regarding hand hygiene). Of course, you certainly don’t need to take my word for it, [About Handwashing | Clean Hands | CDC](http://www.cdc.gov/cleanhands/) If I remember in the morning I’ll try to find something with more specifics. ---
**Author:** ![iamnotbatman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/858c86/32.png) [@iamnotbatman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamnotbatman)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germaphobes-and-hygeine-nazis-why/564539/66 "2010-12-19T08:37:08Z")
> [@ClaytonThroop](#): > > I’ve also heard that hand washing is superior quite specifically by those in the medical… Hand washing my be superior, but if you’ve ever been to a hospital (at least in my parts) they have alcohol based cleansers _everywhere_. So the medical community doesn’t think they are useless. ETA: I should add that it’s not just for the sake of the patients – the nurses and doctors use them routinely without thinking (this is just my observation). ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germaphobes-and-hygeine-nazis-why/564539/67 "2010-12-19T08:52:33Z")
> [@ClaytonThroop](#): > > The CDC disagrees with the first thing you said - proper hand washing is certainly the better of the two options. I’ve also heard that hand washing is superior quite specifically by those in the medical and food service communities (when doing some market research regarding hand hygiene). Of course, you certainly don’t need to take my word for it, [About Handwashing | Clean Hands | CDC](http://www.cdc.gov/cleanhands/) > > If I remember in the morning I’ll try to find something with more specifics. I would much prefer a surficant and water to get my hands clean instead of smearing the dirt around with essentially hand lotion. I dislike being dirty, not to the point of phobia, but I carry screen wipes [essentially alcohol baby wipes] because at least the dirt smears can be wiped off the hands instead of rubbed in. I dont like the sticky feel of regular baby wipes. I was always raised [born in 1961] to wash my hands fairly frequently, after using the bathroom, if I have an illness, before during and after handling raw food, after being out playing … and had more exposure to playing outside than a lot of kids get today and while I do have a fair number of allergies, other than the ones that are anaphylaxis serious, or projectile puking serious [both are food allergies] mine do not cripple me like so many kids today seem to have. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germaphobes-and-hygeine-nazis-why/564539/68 "2010-12-19T11:39:17Z")
There’s a conceptual problem with this thread and it’s this: Germophobes (whatever those happen to be) aren’t very likely to self-iidentify (I know a few have here, but I think they’re a minority). People just aren’t likely to consider their own hygiene regime OTT. Nobody carries on doing an unnecessarily large amount of any optional activity - they either don’t accept/realise that it’s unnecessary, or they cut back if/when they do. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germaphobes-and-hygeine-nazis-why/564539/69 "2010-12-19T13:56:51Z")
> [@ClaytonThroop](#): > > The CDC disagrees with the first thing you said - proper hand washing is certainly the better of the two options. I’ve also heard that hand washing is superior quite specifically by those in the medical and food service communities (when doing some market research regarding hand hygiene). Of course, you certainly don’t need to take my word for it, [About Handwashing | Clean Hands | CDC](http://www.cdc.gov/cleanhands/) > > If I remember in the morning I’ll try to find something with more specifics. Oddly, the [site](http://www.learnwell.org//handhygiene.htm) I was thinking of was also quoting the CDC, at least in part (although the bit below, which is where I got the sanitizers kill more germs idea, doesn’t have a source listed): “The most common agents for hand hygiene are alcohol-based handrubs (70% isopropanol), antimicrobal soap (4% chlorhexidine) and plain soap. With the first agent, the bacterial reduction is usually 99%, with the second about 90%. The two most common techniques are handrubbing and handwashing.” > [@aruvqan](#): > > I would much prefer a surficant and water to get my hands clean instead of smearing the dirt around with essentially hand lotion. Well, yes, if your hands are visibly dirty, you want to wash them. As I said earlier, I don’t use sanitizer. I also don’t don’t worry if the soap is antimicrobal. My wife assures me that that’s the kind she buys, though. I get a bit more enthusiastic about hand hygine during flu season, though, I’ll say that much. What you said about playing outside as a child could be true. I haven’t tried looking it up online but I remember a lecture I heard where they said that things like asthma and allergies may be more common for children who’ve been denied the opportunity to have normal interactions with dirt and germs. However, you also said you have a lot of allergies? How many is “a fair number”, if that’s not too nosy a question? ---
**Author:** ![NinetyWt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/cc9497/32.png) [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germaphobes-and-hygeine-nazis-why/564539/70 "2010-12-19T14:53:51Z")
> [@Zulema](#): > > At home I wash the doorknobs when I’m dusting and the bathroom ones when I’m cleaning the bathrooms. Yeah, I clean the doorknobs when I wipe down the switchplates, or as-needed. If you have kids or a big family, stuff gets on them now and then. Ones near the kitchen seem to get especially food-y. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germaphobes-and-hygeine-nazis-why/564539/71 "2010-12-19T14:55:37Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > What you said about playing outside as a child could be true. I haven’t tried looking it up online but I remember a lecture I heard where they said that things like asthma and allergies may be more common for children who’ve been denied the opportunity to have normal interactions with dirt and germs. However, you also said you have a lot of allergies? How many is “a fair number”, if that’s not too nosy a question? I have 3 food allergies, mushrooms to the point of anaphylaxis, palm products causes sever gastric distress and several hours contemplating my sins in the bathroom, bivalves cause projectile vomiting. I pretty much ignore the allergies to pet fur, it gives me sniffles. I blow my nose. According to the allergist who used me for target practice when I was 12 [my doc made my mom take me after so many consecutive years of sinus and ear infections, or because he rolled the dice and decided I should get tested for allergies] I was allergic to dog, cat, rabbit, goat, horse dander, house dust, something he called industrial dust, ragweed, goldenrod, wool, and a whole passel of foods that I eat happily with no apparent ill effects. Oh, and also poison ivy, which I can smear on myself with impunity [but I don’t, as I don’t want to sensitize myself and tempt fate!] In all the time before and since, I have kept dogs and cats, rode horses competitively, worn wool [i love my sweaters, than you very much] wander outside in blooming season, and eat what doesnt make me sick or kill me. Oddly enough, 2 plants he never mentioned give me the most trouble - forsythia and pine - when they pollenate at me, my sinuses block solid. ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germaphobes-and-hygeine-nazis-why/564539/72 "2010-12-19T15:48:33Z")
Well, it does seem that hand hygiene doesn’t do much to prevent you from getting colds and flu. [This Slate article](http://www.slate.com/id/2245896/)sums up the research I saw from a quick Google. Studies do show that people who use hand sanitizer do have lower rates of gastrointestinal viruses though. It seems we tend to catch colds & flu through droplets in the air, rather than hand-to-face. Especially given my incredibly dry skin, this makes me rethink my frequency of using sanitizer. But I also really hate getting a stomach virus, so I’ll keep some on hand, I’m sure. ---
**Author:** ![ClaytonThroop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@ClaytonThroop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ClaytonThroop)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germaphobes-and-hygeine-nazis-why/564539/73 "2010-12-19T18:20:47Z")
> [@iamnotbatman](#): > > Hand washing my be superior, but if you’ve ever been to a hospital (at least in my parts) they have alcohol based cleansers _everywhere_. So the medical community doesn’t think they are useless. > > ETA: I should add that it’s not just for the sake of the patients – the nurses and doctors use them routinely without thinking (this is just my observation). Oh, absolutely, no question. They can’t be beat for convenience and speed, and are certainly effective - they just aren’t superior to a thorough hand wash. You’d be surprised, though, how many doctors fail to follow hand hygiene rules, even when using hand sanitizer is acceptable for many situations. ---
**Author:** ![Norse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norse)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germaphobes-and-hygeine-nazis-why/564539/74 "2010-12-19T20:43:18Z")
> [@Hedda\_Rosa](#): > > […] using disinfectant on your phone and doorknobs […] would put you on the Golgafrinchan arkship “B” > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Hand sanitizer doesn’t do anything, by the way. Just FYI. It’s a total scam. A rather hilarious piece of trivia: during the latest H1N1 scare, every friggin’ drugstore, grocery store or gas station around here had a hand sanitizer product called “anti **bac** ” on prominent display. Uh, guys, H1N1 ain’t no **bac** terium, it’s a virus :dubious: And those little f\*kcers (i.e. viruses) are pretty damned hard to “kill”… ---
**Author:** ![mozchron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mozchron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mozchron)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germaphobes-and-hygeine-nazis-why/564539/75 "2010-12-19T21:15:32Z")
Hand-washing is superior to sanitizing gels _if it is done properly_. Most people don’t wash their hands properly. It should take at least 60 seconds of vigorous scrubbing. Sanitizing gels aren’t as good, but they are quick and easy. And they will help. FTR, I work in a medical environment (hospital/medical school) and wall-mounted alcohol-based sanitizing gel dispensers are ubiquitous here. I use them probably 20 times a day, since I can just grab some as I pass it without even slowing down. The _en masse_ effect is probably substantial. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germaphobes-and-hygeine-nazis-why/564539/76 "2010-12-19T23:00:12Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > But taking it to the extreme of avoiding all possible germs by using antibiotic-laden soaps, bleach wipes, etc. runs counterproductive, as the helpful or neutral germs tend to get wiped out, and people no longer get low dose exposures to common bacteria in the environment in order to slowly build up commensalate relationships with them. Reading this, I was reminded of Ralph Leighton’s book _Tuva or Bust!: Richard Feynman’s Last Journey_. Traveling by train through the Soviet Union to reach Tuva,[everyone in the group drank tea](http://books.google.com/books?id=eDL697nY3UwC&lpg=PP1&dq=tuva%20or%20bust&pg=PA110#v=onepage&q=tea&f=false): > [@](#): > > The chambermaid of our train car brought us glasses of tasty Georgian tea. After we finished, I took the glasses back to her. She promptly swished them around in a “germ bath” (as Glen called it\_, a tub of lukewarm water. Before they had a chance to dry, she filled our glasses for the next group of passengers. I was not surprised when I came down with a sore throat a few days later. But later on in the book, [he said](http://books.google.com/books?id=eDL697nY3UwC&lpg=PP1&dq=tuva%20or%20bust&pg=PA124#v=snippet&q=throats&f=false): > [@](#): > > As I walked away, I thought, maybe communal glasses kept everyone’s immune system revved up. After an initial investment of a few sore throats, you’re able to fight off the colds and flus of winter. (Over the next week nothing happened - not even another sore throat.) > [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > What you said about playing outside as a child could be true. I haven’t tried looking it up online but I remember a lecture I heard where they said that things like asthma and allergies may be more common for children who’ve been denied the opportunity to have normal interactions with dirt and germs. I can’t find the link I was thinking of, but the gist of it was that autoimmune disorders are related to the body’s immune system attacking harmless things like pollen. I did find this link about [treating MS with a parasite, Helminth ova](http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00645749?term=helminth+ms&rank=1). ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germaphobes-and-hygeine-nazis-why/564539/77 "2010-12-19T23:24:06Z")
Seriously, I hardly ever get colds since I started working at a public library 5 years ago. I give the newspaper out to homeless guys all day and my immune system will kick your immune system’s _ass._ If you shook my hand my white blood cells would hop over to your body and give you an autoimmune disorder just because they can’t help themselves. They’d find you a weaker lifeform and wage total war. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germaphobes-and-hygeine-nazis-why/564539/78 "2010-12-20T00:40:14Z")
> [@NinjaChick](#): > > And as for your last point, that’s probably one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard. Can you name every pathogen that can cause food poisoning? Probably not. Do you still want to avoid nausea and vomiting and diarrhea even if you have no idea what exactly has infected your digestive tract? Probably yes. Normal people do not pick specific illnesses that they want to avoid; they simply want to avoid disease in general. But I can name several specific bacteria that are transmitted from certain raw foods. And I take those precautions only with foods I know transmit bacteria like salmonella. Those of you who wouldn’t touch a shopping cart handle, tell me, what diseases are transmitted that way, that aren’t also transmitted by anything else that other people touch? Avoiding disease is all well and good, but you don’t want to go so far with it that other people you interact with feel that you are treating them like lepers. Not interacting with other humans would reduce the number of sicknesses you get, but it wouldn’t be worth it. I don’t think a lot of the other germophobe precautions are worth it, either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/germaphobes-and-hygeine-nazis-why/564539.md?page=3)