# Gerry Adams- Ex IRA Guman, Ex Deputy First Minister Arrested- Hoist by his own Petard? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 1, 2014, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425 "2014-05-01T08:39:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/1 "2014-05-01T08:39:22Z")
Gerry Adams has been arrested in NI and may be charged with a particularly appalling murder during the Troubles. It is alleged that he was involved in kidnapping a Roman Catholic woman whose only ‘crime’ was to go to the aid of a wounded British Soldier. Adams has lobbied against a Peace and Reconciliation Commission in order to try to hold British troops to account for their actions. I would have supported such a commission but the Nationalists have fought against it. Adams seems to be the author of his own misfortunes. Maybe McGuinness next- or will this cause a commission to be created? ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/2 "2014-05-01T08:40:33Z")
Reference: > **[Sinn Féin president Gerry Adams held over 1972 Jean McConville killing](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/30/gerry-adams-held-jean-mconville-killing)** > > Northern Ireland police say 65-year-old man detained in investigation into one of most notorious murders of the Troubles ---
**Author:** ![Becky2844](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Becky2844](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Becky2844)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/3 "2014-05-01T09:15:05Z")
Bow up and whoa there, jack. Adams was instrumental in the peace while people were still carrying guns and shooting each other in the kneecaps. For him to now be “against” blah blah Commision is politics. “Widowed mother” the article goes…(push _another_ button why dontcha)…all _I_ see is Too easy—fall guy—and political manipulation. The Troubles are too complex to understand easily but at the end of the day, an honest man is still honest and a knot may be for naught. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/4 "2014-05-01T09:18:01Z")
Its actually amazing how many inaccuracies are in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/5 "2014-05-01T09:27:33Z")
Glad to see the Fenianist scum arrested, although its probably hoping too much to think he’ll actually rot for the rest of his life in prison. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/6 "2014-05-01T09:38:46Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > Its actually amazing how many inaccuracies are in the OP. Care to elucidate? ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/7 "2014-05-01T09:43:07Z")
> [@Becky2844](#): > > Bow up and whoa there, jack. Adams was instrumental in the peace while people were still carrying guns and shooting each other in the kneecaps. For him to now be “against” blah blah Commision is politics. “Widowed mother” the article goes…(push _another_ button why dontcha)…all _I_ see is Too easy—fall guy—and political manipulation. The Troubles are too complex to understand easily but at the end of the day, an honest man is still honest and a knot may be for naught. Adams was instrumental in the Peace Process, no doubt. I admire him for that. Evidence exists from contemporaneous PIRA members that implicate him in being a part of a seat squad. I could certainly forgive him for that if there had been a Truth and Reconciliation process. But this has been vigorously opposed by Sinn Fein as it would let Unionists and British Forces off the hook. Hence my question- is he the author of his own downfall? ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/8 "2014-05-01T09:50:27Z")
> [@Becky2844](#): > > Bow up and whoa there, jack. Adams was instrumental in the peace while people were still carrying guns and shooting each other in the kneecaps. For him to now be “against” blah blah Commision is politics. “Widowed mother” the article goes…(push _another_ button why dontcha)…all _I_ see is Too easy—fall guy—and political manipulation. The Troubles are too complex to understand easily but at the end of the day, an honest man is still honest and a knot may be for naught. Are you seriously suggesting that there is any doubt that this guy was a killer in his early career? You didn’t rise to a leadership position in the IRA back then for advocating passive resistance, or negotiating with the Brits, or putting flowers in gun barrels. He may have been smart enough to change his tune once it became politically expedient, but there is no doubt about how he got his feet on the ladder. If he didn’t do this murder he did others, probably quite a few. Whatever the rights and wrongs of Irish nationalism (and _they_ are certainly complex), this guy is no Gandhi or Martin-Luther King, he is a lot closer to an Osama Bin-Laden (who no doubt thought he had a just cause too). One man’s terrorist may be another man’s freedom fighter, but either way a killer, an enthusiastic one. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/9 "2014-05-01T09:56:56Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Care to elucidate? Well quite apart from the loaded phrasing of labelling Adams a Gunman who opposed the peace and reconciliation commission there is the factual inaccuracy right in the title, Gerry Adams was never Deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/10 "2014-05-01T09:57:57Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Adams was instrumental in the Peace Process, no doubt. > > I admire him for that. > > Evidence exists from contemporaneous PIRA members that implicate him in being a part of a seat squad. I could certainly forgive him for that if there had been a Truth and Reconciliation process. But this has been vigorously opposed by Sinn Fein as it would let Unionists and British Forces off the hook. > > Hence my question- is he the author of his own downfall? Yes, it is a valid question. Adams wants it both ways, his murderers to get treated differently to everyone elses. It sticks in my craw to have republican and loyalist murdering scum as part of the establishment but that part at least seems to be a price worth paying when peace truly is possible. And let us dispense with any legal niceties here. There cannot be a sentient creature alive who doubts for a second what is required of top-line figure such as Adams et al. They have killed or sanctioned the killing of innocents. But my discomfort doesn’t really matter here. I be happy with full disclosure and justice for all parties be that through standard legal procedures or a truth and reconciliation council. The only criteria is that the same rules apply to all. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/11 "2014-05-01T10:00:16Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Are you seriously suggesting that there is any doubt that this guy was a killer in his early career? You didn’t rise to a leadership position in the IRA back then for advocating passive resistance, or negotiating with the Brits, or putting flowers in gun barrels. He may have been smart enough to change his tune once it became politically expedient, but there is no doubt about how he got his feet on the ladder. If he didn’t do this murder he did others, probably quite a few. You do realise that the IRA was not a street gang selling drugs on the corner, don’t you? I’m no terrorist apologist, but there are indeed many members of the IRA who have never shot or murdered anybody, strange as it may seem. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/12 "2014-05-01T10:05:06Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > I’m no terrorist apologist, but there are indeed many members of the IRA who have never shot or murdered anybody, strange as it may seem. Are you seriously suggesting that Adams is one of them? ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/13 "2014-05-01T10:07:17Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > Well quite apart from the loaded phrasing of labelling Adams a Gunman who opposed the peace and reconciliation commission there is the factual inaccuracy right in the title, Gerry Adams was never Deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland. My mistake. One PIRA ex-gunman is much like another. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/14 "2014-05-01T10:15:43Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > You do realise that the IRA was not a street gang selling drugs on the corner, don’t you? > > I’m no terrorist apologist, but there are indeed many members of the IRA who have never shot or murdered anybody, strange as it may seem. Murder under common law is committed not just by the wielder of the weapon, but also by the person who orders it. My understanding is that several PIRA members including the actual killer confirm that Adams commanded the particular death squad which disciplined PIRA renegades and citizen collaborators, and that he ordered this particular death. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/15 "2014-05-01T10:16:54Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Yes, it is a valid question. Adams wants it both ways, his murderers to get treated differently to everyone elses. > > It sticks in my craw to have republican and loyalist murdering scum as part of the establishment but that part at least seems to be a price worth paying when peace truly is possible. > > And let us dispense with any legal niceties here. There cannot be a sentient creature alive who doubts for a second what is required of top-line figure such as Adams et al. They have killed or sanctioned the killing of innocents. > > But my discomfort doesn’t really matter here. I be happy with full disclosure and justice for all parties be that through standard legal procedures or a truth and reconciliation council. The only criteria is that the same rules apply to all. I agree- good summary. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/16 "2014-05-01T10:20:36Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Are you seriously suggesting that Adams is one of them? My opinion is that while Adams most definitely was involved in ordering the deaths of many people he did not ever personally shoot anybody. That may be a moot distinction to many people but I was responding to this: > [@](#): > > If he didn’t do this murder he did others, probably quite a few My opinion is based on just as little evidence as the opinion of many here that he was a gunman who personally shot people. In fact I doubt he ever did shoot anybody, he was just the cunt who ordered it. Its still misleading to label him as a gunman though, and this whole issue is murky enough without accepting as fact things that probably aren’t true. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/17 "2014-05-01T10:26:32Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > My opinion is that while Adams most definitely was involved in ordering the deaths of many people he did not ever personally shoot anybody. That may be a moot distinction to many people but I was responding to this: > > My opinion is based on just as little evidence as the opinion of many here that he was a gunman who personally shot people. In fact I doubt he ever did shoot anybody, he was just the cunt who ordered it. Its still misleading to label him as a gunman though, and this whole issue is murky enough without accepting as fact things that probably aren’t true. Maybe then we can agree that the correct epithet is murderer. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/18 "2014-05-01T10:40:14Z")
He hasn’t actually been charged yet and it’s not exactly the first time he’s been arrested. I don’t know if he was involved in this particular murder, but I’d be absolutely astonished if it turned out he had never directly murdered or at least ordered the murder of several people in his IRA days. I know he denies ever having been a member of the IRA, but nobody believes that. I do wonder about the timing. Sinn Fein is currently on the side of those trying to get a law ratified that would give NI gay marriage just like the rest of the UK has or shortly will, and the Catholic Church is against it. Perhaps that’s behind the timing of this arrest. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/19 "2014-05-01T10:47:44Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > He hasn’t actually been charged yet and it’s not exactly the first time he’s been arrested. I don’t know if he was involved in this particular murder, but I’d be absolutely astonished if it turned out he had never directly murdered or at least ordered the murder of several people in his IRA days. I know he denies ever having been a member of the IRA, but nobody believes that. > > I do wonder about the timing. Sinn Fein is currently on the side of those trying to get a law ratified that would give NI gay marriage just like the rest of the UK has or shortly will, and the Catholic Church is against it. Perhaps that’s behind the timing of this arrest. My understanding is that recordings by various PIRA operatives were made by an academic in the USA on the understanding that they would remain secret until the death of the interviewees. Possibly the FBI has demanded and got access via a court order. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/20 "2014-05-01T11:17:56Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > My understanding is that recordings by various PIRA operatives were made by an academic in the USA on the understanding that they would remain secret until the death of the interviewees. Possibly the FBI has demanded and got access via a court order. Or they were stored in the Cloud. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425.md?page=2)