# Gerry Adams- Ex IRA Guman, Ex Deputy First Minister Arrested- Hoist by his own Petard? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 1, 2014, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425 "2014-05-01T08:39:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/41 "2014-05-01T15:37:53Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > The South African experience with the Truth and Reconciliation Committee is generally considered a good model for moving forward after horrible periods like NI had. So yes, horrible murderers get away with it because it’s better than stoking animosity through dozens of murder trials of people on both sides of the conflict. That may be so, but that doesn’t exist in this case, and the person accused has, himself, lobbied against such reconciliation. But I do agree that oftentimes we need to put the past behind us for the greater good of securing peace going forward. I’m not familiar enough with the details of “The Troubles” to be certain it is one of those times, though. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/42 "2014-05-01T15:40:14Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > There isn’t one for murder virtually anywhere. But isn’t this a kidnapping charge? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/43 "2014-05-01T16:09:28Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But isn’t this a kidnapping charge? At common law there was no limitation against the Crown. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/44 "2014-05-01T16:44:55Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > That may be so, but that doesn’t exist in this case, and the person accused has, himself, lobbied against such reconciliation. > > But I do agree that oftentimes we need to put the past behind us for the greater good of securing peace going forward. I’m not familiar enough with the details of “The Troubles” to be certain it is one of those times, though. Yes, hence the “hoisted by his own petard” OP. I just thought the posters scoffing that the overall context should matter are being short sighted. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/45 "2014-05-01T16:46:38Z")
Peter Hain, Minister of State for NI at the time of the settlement has just pointed out on the BBC that in the legislation proposed by HMG at the time was provision for a Truth and Reconciliation Commission, but strenuous objection from Sinn Fein over British soldiers being covers meant that it was not progressed. As I said- hoist by his own petard. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/46 "2014-05-01T16:51:28Z")
I wanted to add: John Mace, What exactly do you mean by " that doesn’t exist in this case"? There were certainly murders done by both sides of the NI conflict and lots of questionable imprisonments and kidnapping. You mean specifically this murder case doesn’t involve other murders? ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/47 "2014-05-01T16:53:04Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Maybe so. But if we decide to let murdering paramilitary scum off the hook for murdering people back in the old days, then it can’t be “only if it’s Gerry Adams”. Lots of murdering paramilitary scum where released from jail under the Good Friday Agreement. They had previously been found guilty obviously. Adams is in trouble or that there is no doubt. Politicians in power on both side of the border will be delighted with this as elections are coming up and SF in the Republic anyway were probably going to do quite well. Remains to be seen what this means to that. Adams most certainly never actually killed anyone personally as he was a political leader from very early on in his republican life but almost certainly was involved in ordering and organising actions. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/48 "2014-05-01T16:57:29Z")
> [@yojimbo](#): > > Adams is in trouble or that there is no doubt. Politicians in power on both side of the border will be delighted with this as elections are coming up and SF in the Republic anyway were probably going to do quite well. Remains to be seen what this means to that. > > Adams most certainly never actually killed anyone personally as he was a political leader from very early on in his republican life but almost certainly was involved in ordering and organising actions. Isn’t this something that everyone already kind of knew, though? Is anyone going to the view the arrest as a revelation of the kind of man he is rather than poking at old wounds? ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/49 "2014-05-01T17:17:57Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Isn’t this something that everyone already kind of knew, though? Is anyone going to the view the arrest as a revelation of the kind of man he is rather than poking at old wounds? But it is necessary to heal the wounds. Sinn Fein should have gone for Truth and Reconciliation but refused. One major problem is that this could be a shot across the bows of Martin McGuiness, currently Joint And Deputy First Minister, who almost certainly has more actual blood on his hands than Adams. He has just been interviewed on the BBC and rather disappointingly but not unexpectedly is suggesting that corruption in the Police (for which he is responsible) is the only reason for arresting Adams. More is expected of a statesman, but- once a gangster, always a gangster. The problem is that there is a massive case of denial in IRA/Sinn Fein- unable to accept any responsibility for their atrocities. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/50 "2014-05-01T17:21:17Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > But it is necessary to heal the wounds. Sinn Fein should have gone for Truth and Reconciliation but refused. > > One major problem is that this could be a shot across the bows of Martin McGuiness, currently Joint And Deputy First Minister, who almost certainly has more actual blood on his hands than Adams. So in other words, NOT a step towards healing old wounds but rather opening a can of worms. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/51 "2014-05-01T17:29:07Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > So in other words, NOT a step towards healing old wounds but rather opening a can of worms. Or encouraging the setting up of a system to heal the wounds. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/52 "2014-05-01T17:31:18Z")
So you think this is being done to push Sinn Féin to the T&R table? ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/53 "2014-05-01T17:42:21Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > So you think this is being done to push Sinn Féin to the T&R table? Not as a matter of policy, but as an independent police service it must be frustrating to have pretty damn good evidence of atrocities and not be able to move on them. A commission which could amnesty after confession would regularise the detection and charging process as crimes were written off. The PSNI has a legal responsibility to investigate all crime and present such evidence to the prosecutors. This is why McGuinesses weasel words are so appalling. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/54 "2014-05-01T19:00:18Z")
Personally, I should be delighted to see Gerry dance upon the air; but t’was ever thus: a/ as a jacobite I am entitled to loathe every single side in the Troubles, including the British state, and frequently advocate their liquidation during idle reveries. b/ Gerry was always a morose little git. However. bearing in mind my own genuine fallibility in memory, the fact that liars generally gain something, and that truth is a movable feast anyway, my distaste for the bearded wonder can’t override my distrust in prosecutions after 15 years. Let him walk. He — like us all — will be dead soon enough. Plus, as well as the fact he’s not going to do it again: although the belief execution makes martyrs is generally bogus — had Vladimir Ilych swung beside his brother not only would many people have lived longer, but he’d be entirely forgotten — Gerry would make a particularly _annoying_ martyr, clambering up the execution shed all Christlike and serene, and babbling about a United Ireland set free. ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bruce\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/55 "2014-05-01T19:28:40Z")
I heard the interview with one of the woman’s sons on NPR’s BBC hour this morning and apparently he knows the names of those that kidnapped his mom. He said he won’t talk to police or anyone else about it because he fears for his family’s safety. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/56 "2014-05-01T19:32:53Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Yesssss… Down with the papist scum! Keep Ultser Protestant! > > Wait…this is not the 1970’s. What possible value could arresting him now be for? Well Nazi war criminals from World War 2 have been put on trial in the last few years along with KKK members guilty of the murder of civil rights activists. ---
**Author:** ![Hrududu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Hrududu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hrududu)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/57 "2014-05-01T21:00:06Z")
> [@Bruce\_Wayne](#): > > I heard the interview with one of the woman’s sons on NPR’s BBC hour this morning and apparently he knows the names of those that kidnapped his mom. He said he won’t talk to police or anyone else about it because he fears for his family’s safety. From an interview, possibly the same one: [Michael McConville says the IRA will kill him if he names those involved in his mother's murder](http://www.thejournal.ie/michael-mcconville-jean-mcconville-murder-gerry-adams-ira-1442811-May2014/) A week after they took his mother the IRA took him to a house and the following happened: “They tied me to a chair and they beat me with sticks and put a gun to my head. They said they would kill me if I gave any information about the IRA. This went on for about three hours. At the end of it, they said they were going to shoot me and they fired a cap gun.” He was 11. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/58 "2014-05-01T22:26:04Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > The South African experience with the Truth and Reconciliation Committee is generally considered a good model for moving forward after horrible periods like NI had. So yes, horrible murderers get away with it because it’s better than stoking animosity through dozens of murder trials of people on both sides of the conflict. I wholeheartedly agree that South Africa’s approach was a marvel. This didn’t happen in South Africa. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/59 "2014-05-01T23:57:02Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I wholeheartedly agree that South Africa’s approach was a marvel. This didn’t happen in South Africa. and the differences that would demonstrate a point here would be… ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/60 "2014-05-02T00:10:30Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > and the differences that would demonstrate a point here would be… If a legal arrangement existed in Northern Ireland for such a process then perhaps O’Kane would get away with it (He’d have to tell the truth, though.) But they don’t - **in part because he opposed it.** That’s why the thread is titled as it is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425.md?page=4)