# Gerry Adams- Ex IRA Guman, Ex Deputy First Minister Arrested- Hoist by his own Petard? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 1, 2014, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425 "2014-05-01T08:39:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/61 "2014-05-02T00:33:03Z")
OK, but the post of yours that I responded to was saying “bullshit this was part of the Troubles and he’s a murderer so he should go to jail for life”. I was pointing out that attitude is not considered “best practice”. Yes, the legal framework is not there atm for a T&R Committee but that’s the direction they should probably be heading, rather than howling for justice. Otherwise, there could be a lot more howling coming. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/62 "2014-05-02T05:46:16Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I wholeheartedly agree that South Africa’s approach was a marvel. This didn’t happen in South Africa. But Sinn Féin have repeatedly called for an approach along the lines of the one in South Africa. The OP’s contention that they have opposed any such process is simply and [verifiably](http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/13738) false. > [@Pjen](#): > > It is alleged that he was involved in kidnapping a Roman Catholic woman whose only ‘crime’ was to go to the aid of a wounded British Soldier The tapes in which it is asserted that Adams was involved in her abduction and death also make the assertion that she was indeed assisting the British army as the IRA have always claimed. This of course does not justify what was done to her, but if these tapes are going to be cited as evidence of what took place, they should not be selectively cited. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/63 "2014-05-02T06:04:37Z")
> [@ruadh](#): > > But Sinn Féin have repeatedly called for an approach along the lines of the one in South Africa. The OP’s contention that they have opposed any such process is simply and [verifiably](http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/13738) false. > > The tapes in which it is asserted that Adams was involved in her abduction and death also make the assertion that she was indeed assisting the British army as the IRA have always claimed. This of course does not justify what was done to her, but if these tapes are going to be cited as evidence of what took place, they should not be selectively cited. Of course the Sinn fein website is trustworthy about this matter! Why did SinnFein/IRA oppose the Truth and Reconciliation Commission in the original Good Friday Agreements? Who cares if she was legally helping someone- it never justifies killing someone in cold blood. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/64 "2014-05-02T06:10:49Z")
> **[ChristianMailhes.pdf](https://estudiosirlandeses.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/ChristianMailhes.pdf)** > > 258.54 KB This analysis explains why Republicans opposed a Truth and Reconciliation process at the time- a wish to continue to criticise the British Establishment. Fair enough. But now it has returned to haunt them. If Sinn Fein are now so keen on a Truth and Reconciliation Process as they say on their website, who is opposing it? Why have they change position? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/65 "2014-05-02T06:23:47Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > OK, but the post of yours that I responded to was saying “bullshit this was part of the Troubles and he’s a murderer so he should go to jail for life”. I was pointing out that attitude is not considered “best practice”. Yes, the legal framework is not there atm for a T&R Committee but that’s the direction they should probably be heading, rather than howling for justice. Otherwise, there could be a lot more howling coming. I largely agree but there’s no T&R Committee in place regarding the Israel/Palestinian conflict but I assume you’d agree that if the Israeli government were to go after Abbas for involvement in the so-called “Munich Massacre” that it wouldn’t serve any purpose and you’d agree with the current Israeli policy of forgiving those with “a little blood on their hands”? Note, I’m not a fan of the IRA or the PLO. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/66 "2014-05-02T15:46:06Z")
I am really quite surprised that Adams is still being questioned after nearly 48 hours. Maybe he is just ‘no commenting’. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/67 "2014-05-02T15:50:38Z")
Just been announced that the PSNI are going to court in an attempt to detain him for longer than the initial 48 hour period allowed. Most interesting! ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/68 "2014-05-02T15:52:50Z")
At least Sin Fein attitudes are consistent: "In response to Adams’ arrest, Sinn Féin supporters in his old West Belfast constituency have been painting a mural in his honour. Work has continued on the image off the Falls Road with the title: “Peacemaker, leader, visionary”. Graffiti criticising former IRA members who took part in the Boston College-Belfast Project, and whose testimonies have been a key factor in prompting Adams’ arrest, went up in the area earlier on Friday. It refers to “Boston College touts” and relates to those ex-IRA activists who gave taped interviews to researchers which allegedly included details about the McConville murder and the alleged role of Adams in the killing." > **[Jean McConville police seek more time to question Gerry Adams](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/02/jean-mcconville-police-seek-more-time-question-gerry-adams)** > > Sinn Féin president must be released on Friday evening unless court allows extension of detention over Troubles murder ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/69 "2014-05-02T15:56:28Z")
Some background: > **[Old Bailey bomber Dolours Price accused Gerry Adams of being behind the...](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/northernireland/10803439/Old-Bailey-bomber-Dolours-Price-accused-Gerry-Adams-of-being-behind-the-abductions-of-The-Disappeared.html)** > > As the daughter of Jean McConville speaks out over the murder of her mother, The Telegraph publishes an interview with convicted Old Bailey bomber Dolours Price in which she accused Gerry Adams of being behind the abduction of 15 people ‘disappeared’... “Dolours Price, the woman convicted of the 1973 IRA bombing of the Old Bailey, was among the first to publicly accuse Gerry Adams of being responsible for the abduction of those the terrorist organisation considered informers. In an interview with The Telegraph in September 2012 Dolours Price claimed that Adams, as her “Officer Commanding” in the Belfast Brigade of the Provisional IRA, ordered her to drive alleged informers from Northern Ireland into the Republic. They would later be executed. She also claimed Adams was involved in approving an IRA bombing campaign on mainland Britain, including the attack on the Old Bailey for which she served eight years in prison.” Read much more: > **[Old Bailey bomber Dolours Price accused Gerry Adams of being behind the...](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/northernireland/10803439/Old-Bailey-bomber-Dolours-Price-accused-Gerry-Adams-of-being-behind-the-abductions-of-The-Disappeared.html)** > > As the daughter of Jean McConville speaks out over the murder of her mother, The Telegraph publishes an interview with convicted Old Bailey bomber Dolours Price in which she accused Gerry Adams of being behind the abduction of 15 people ‘disappeared’... ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/70 "2014-05-02T17:08:06Z")
Can’t see how any prosecution could possibly succeed. This is seen as a gift to the southern parties that are quaking in their boots about SF electoral gains in the south. Personally, I don’t know how it could damage SF much overall. Is there any SF voter who doesn’t know about the Troubles? It’s worth noting too that there are over 3000 unsolved murders from the Troubles era. I think it is a dangerous game they’re playing if this arrest has been as politically motivated as many have suggested. The Peace Process could be in jeopardy and selectively digging up old bones is likely to retard the progress of Irish society. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/71 "2014-05-02T17:09:14Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Glad to see the Fenianist scum arrested, although its probably hoping too much to think he’ll actually rot for the rest of his life in prison. I think you are possibly the only person ever to have used the term Fenianist. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/72 "2014-05-02T17:11:31Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Can’t see how any prosecution could possibly succeed. > > This is seen as a gift to the southern parties that are quaking in their boots about SF electoral gains in the south. Personally, I don’t know how it could damage SF much overall. Is there any SF voter who doesn’t know about the Troubles? > > It’s worth noting there are over 3000 unsolved murders from the Troubles era. Will there be a ‘prosecution’. Are not historic problems prior to 1998 brought before some non-judicial tribunal? ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/73 "2014-05-02T17:24:16Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Of course the Sinn fein website is trustworthy about this matter! Er, yes, I think a party website is a pretty reliable guide to what a party has said on a subject. Unless you’re suggesting someone other than SF are maintaining their site. > [@](#): > > Who cares if she was legally helping someone- it never justifies killing someone in cold blood. Pretty sure I said it wasn’t justified … yep, I did. > [@](#): > > This analysis explains why Republicans opposed \*\*a Truth and Reconciliation process at the time- a wish to continue to criticise the British Establishment. Actually the most enlightening thing about that paper is that it spends 14 pages purportedly on the subject of “Northern Ireland in transition” without once even _mentioning_ Sinn Féin. Neat trick, possibly without precedent. The closest thing I find to an explanation in there is nothing like you’ve described it, either: “_Suspicion that the government might try to cover up security-force collusion with Loyalist paramilitaries in this case [Pat Finucane’s murder] might be one major reason why the nationalist community [NB, not interchangeable with “republicans”] has not enthusiastically supported the creation of a Truth and Reconciliation Commission_.” > [@](#): > > If Sinn Fein are now so keen on a Truth and Reconciliation Process as they say on their website, who is opposing it? I don’t know that anyone opposes it on principle, but there are different ideas about who should be at the helm and what the terms of reference should be. > [@](#): > > Why have they change position? They’ve changed position about a lot of things since the GFA - Stormont, the PSNI, meeting the Queen… The North is a different place now, I don’t see why you’d expect the parties to be rigidly adhering to every position they held back then. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/74 "2014-05-02T17:33:44Z")
> [@ruadh](#): > > They’ve changed position about a lot of things since the GFA - Stormont, the PSNI, meeting the Queen… The North is a different place now, I don’t see why you’d expect the parties to be rigidly adhering to every position they held back then. I see a lot of comment on this. It’s a bit of a head scratcher. As if any party has had the same POV, policies since 1969, plus, if they hadn’t changed position they’d be in the same camp as the so called dissident republicans. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/75 "2014-05-02T17:44:54Z")
> [@ruadh](#): > > Er, yes, I think a party website is a pretty reliable guide to what a party has said on a subject. Unless you’re suggesting someone other than SF are maintaining their site. > > Pretty sure I said it wasn’t justified … yep, I did. > > Actually the most enlightening thing about that paper is that it spends 14 pages purportedly on the subject of “Northern Ireland in transition” without once even _mentioning_ Sinn Féin. Neat trick, possibly without precedent. > > The closest thing I find to an explanation in there is nothing like you’ve described it, either: “_Suspicion that the government might try to cover up security-force collusion with Loyalist paramilitaries in this case [Pat Finucane’s murder] might be one major reason why the nationalist community [NB, not interchangeable with “republicans”] has not enthusiastically supported the creation of a Truth and Reconciliation Commission_.” > > I don’t know that anyone opposes it on principle, but there are different ideas about who should be at the helm and what the terms of reference should be. > > They’ve changed position about a lot of things since the GFA - Stormont, the PSNI, meeting the Queen… The North is a different place now, I don’t see why you’d expect the parties to be rigidly adhering to every position they held back then. Any political party website will give its version of the truth which may omit much and may even distort things positively. Sinn Fein/IRA have frequently shown attitudes to events that would cause horror if they were not in such acuddly emotional national cause. The website nowhere admits that it was at their behest that the proposed commission (supported by Irish and British Governments) was removed from the legislation. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/76 "2014-05-02T21:09:21Z")
Police given another 48 hours to question Adams ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/77 "2014-05-02T21:26:11Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Police given another 48 hours to question Adams Wow! How long can they hold him before they have to charge him or release him? ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/78 "2014-05-03T00:09:37Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > The Peace Process could be in jeopardy and selectively digging up old bones is likely to retard the progress of Irish society. Pretty much this. I think a lot of my generation (I’m in my late 30s) accept that a lot of bad shit went down all around and really we just want it to be over. You have to let some things go for the greater good. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/79 "2014-05-03T02:33:38Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Sinn Fein/IRA have frequently shown attitudes to events that would cause horror if they were not in such acuddly emotional national cause. Their actions and attitudes to those actions caused plenty of horror, as did the actions and attitudes of many other parties involved. No huge fan of SF or the IRA but their deeds need to be judged in the broader context of what was going on. Many of the actions of, to give an example of a party not in a cuddly emotional national cause, the British Army, would not have been remotely acceptable outside of the special set of circumstances that prevailed in the north of Ireland during those years. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/80 "2014-05-03T02:34:49Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Wow! > > How long can they hold him before they have to charge him or release him? 28 days. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425.md?page=5)