# Gerry Adams- Ex IRA Guman, Ex Deputy First Minister Arrested- Hoist by his own Petard? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 1, 2014, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425 "2014-05-01T08:39:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/81 "2014-05-03T03:13:08Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > 28 days. So they still have such emergency powers in effect even though the Troubles have effectively been over for a while? I assume they can’t do that with every suspected murderer. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/82 "2014-05-03T03:33:37Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > So they still have such emergency powers in effect even though the Troubles have effectively been over for a while? > > I assume they can’t do that with every suspected murderer. OK I could be wrong but read he could be held up to 28 days as a terror suspect. Not a direct cite but shows that 28 days is on the books: > **[About the Law Library | Law Library of Congress | Research Centers | Library...](https://www.loc.gov/research-centers/law-library-of-congress/about-this-research-center/)** > > The mission of the Law Library of Congress is to provide > authoritative legal research, reference and instruction services, > and access to an unrivaled collection of U.S., foreign, > comparative, and international law. To accomplish this mission, > the Law... ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/83 "2014-05-03T04:46:58Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Pretty much this. I think a lot of my generation (I’m in my late 30s) accept that a lot of bad shit went down all around and really we just want it to be over. You have to let some things go for the greater good. Maybe then the SinnFein/IRA should stop their moaning about Bloody Friday! (not really- just pointing out that we need some agreed process to deal with the fallout, and we obviously do not have one now. Maybe if Adams and McGuiness are at risk of some sort of legal response (as are the soldiers who shot people on Bloody Friday) then both sides might decide a way forward. As always in this conflict every side is as bad and as hypocritical as the other. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/84 "2014-05-03T04:49:13Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > OK I could be wrong but read he could be held up to 28 days as a terror suspect. Not a direct cite but shows that 28 days is on the books: > [About the Law Library | Law Library of Congress | Research Centers | Library of Congress](http://www.loc.gov/law/help/uk-pre-charge-detention.php) It was said that he had been arrested in connection with a terrorist offence, so potentially the 28 day limit could apply. At least it i not 90, 56, 42 days as the last Government tried to introduce. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/85 "2014-05-03T04:56:05Z")
Usual Temper Tantrum from McGuinness. Note that McGuiness is meant to be the deputy (SInn Fein call it ‘Joint’) First Minister of Northern Ireland. He is now threatening to withdraw his support for the police! A real democrat would work with the system for which he is responsible rather than try to subvert it. Imagine the Prime Minister or President of any other Democracy that threatened to disown their own police force because a party member was being questioned about the possibility that they had committed an act that almost everybody really knows that he was responsible for in some manner. It is not as if he has even been charged. > **[Police given a further 48 hours to question Gerry Adams](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2618479/Are-going-come-bullet-head-Well-know-I-live-Daughter-mother-ten-abducted-WILL-tell-police-killed-says-Gerry-Adams-involved.html)** > > Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness said his party would review its 2007 vote to recognise the legitimacy of Northern Ireland's police if Adams isn't freed without charge. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/86 "2014-05-03T04:59:08Z")
Just to give an idea of what Adams is accused of ordering: “December 1972: Neighbours claim they saw Jean McConville helping a wounded British soldier in west Belfast and the following day she was attacked and beaten in a bingo hall. She was found wandering the streets with no memory of what had happened. The next evening a gang of IRA members smashed into her home and abducted her, with one member returning a day later with her purse and wedding ring. 1999: For 27 years the IRA refused to admit it was involved in her murder. But then it passed information to police in the Republic of Ireland that her body was under a beach in County Louth. Officers searched for her but found nothing and the hunt was abandoned. 2003: A huge storm washed away an embankment at Shelling Beach, revealing the body of Mrs McConville. A post mortem examination revealed she had been mutilated and had broken bones. She was shot in the back of the head while kneeling, experts said. She was now buried next to her late husband Arthur. 2008: Belfast IRA commander Brendan Hughes dies and on a taped interview with academics from Boston carrying out a study on the Troubles. He alleged Gerry Adams had ordered Mrs McConville’s killing - claims the Sinn Fein leader vehemently contested. 2013: Old Bailey bomber Dolours Price made it public that she had also given an interview to Boston College about Mrs McConville’s death in which she made similar allegations about Mr Adams. Lawyers representing the Police service in Northern Ireland launch a legal bid in the US to obtain the tapes to seek prosecutions and they won. March 2014: Veteran republican Ivor Bell, 77, charged with aiding and abetting in the murder - a counts he denies. April 30 2014: Gerry Adams is arrested.” > **[Police given a further 48 hours to question Gerry Adams](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2618479/Are-going-come-bullet-head-Well-know-I-live-Daughter-mother-ten-abducted-WILL-tell-police-killed-says-Gerry-Adams-involved.html#ixzz30cqPbBaT)** > > Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness said his party would review its 2007 vote to recognise the legitimacy of Northern Ireland's police if Adams isn't freed without charge. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/87 "2014-05-03T05:17:33Z")
I think everyone had the gist of it. Forty some years ago he ordered a woman’s murder. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/88 "2014-05-03T05:41:30Z")
A reasoned article on the matter: > **[Gerry Adams arrest: Is it possible to have justice and peace?](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/gerry-adams-arrest-is-it-possible-to-have-justice-and-peace-9319000.html)** > > The ethical dilemma raised by the arrest of Gerry Adams for a crime that took place in 1972 ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/89 "2014-05-03T05:47:05Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Just to give an idea of what Adams is accused of ordering: > > “December 1972: Neighbours claim they saw Jean McConville helping a wounded British soldier in west Belfast and the following day she was attacked and beaten in a bingo hall. She was found wandering the streets with no memory of what had happened. > The next evening a gang of IRA members smashed into her home and abducted her, with one member returning a day later with her purse and wedding ring. > 1999: For 27 years the IRA refused to admit it was involved in her murder. But then it passed information to police in the Republic of Ireland that her body was under a beach in County Louth. Officers searched for her but found nothing and the hunt was abandoned. > 2003: A huge storm washed away an embankment at Shelling Beach, revealing the body of Mrs McConville. A post mortem examination revealed she had been mutilated and had broken bones. She was shot in the back of the head while kneeling, experts said. She was now buried next to her late husband Arthur. > 2008: Belfast IRA commander Brendan Hughes dies and on a taped interview with academics from Boston carrying out a study on the Troubles. He alleged Gerry Adams had ordered Mrs McConville’s killing - claims the Sinn Fein leader vehemently contested. > 2013: Old Bailey bomber Dolours Price made it public that she had also given an interview to Boston College about Mrs McConville’s death in which she made similar allegations about Mr Adams. Lawyers representing the Police service in Northern Ireland launch a legal bid in the US to obtain the tapes to seek prosecutions and they won. > March 2014: Veteran republican Ivor Bell, 77, charged with aiding and abetting in the murder - a counts he denies. > April 30 2014: Gerry Adams is arrested.” > [http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2618479/Are-going-come-bullet-head-Well-know-I-live-Daughter-mother-ten-abducted-WILL-tell-police-killed-says-Gerry-Adams-involved.html#ixzz30cqPbBaT](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2618479/Are-going-come-bullet-head-Well-know-I-live-Daughter-mother-ten-abducted-WILL-tell-police-killed-says-Gerry-Adams-involved.html#ixzz30cqPbBaT) Sounds awful, but pretty much par for the course for such situations. Amongst the Palestinians she’d be referred to as an “ameel”(collaborator) and she’d have been killed in a vastly more brutal fashion after first giving a video-taped confession of her treason which would have been a popular rental at video stores in the West Bank and in South Africa rather than getting beaten to death she’d have died screaming with a burning tire on her neck. I know the IRA think they were badasses but frankly they were pussies compared to the Al-Fatah, Hamas, Azapo and Umkhonto We Sizwe and the various groups who claimed to be affiliated with them. Again, nothing I’d support but again, I don’t see the point in charging him. I think the Israelis have the right idea about sometimes turning a blind eye to those with “a little blood on their hands”. Anyway if the Israelis could stomach Arafat I don’t see why the British can’t stomach Adams. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/90 "2014-05-03T06:05:46Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Any political party website will give its version of the truth which may omit much and may even distort things positively. Sinn Fein/IRA have frequently shown attitudes to events that would cause horror if they were not in such acuddly emotional national cause. > > The website nowhere admits that it was at their behest that the proposed commission (supported by Irish and British Governments) was removed from the legislation. You said that SF have “vigorously opposed” a truth and reconciliation process. The site shows that that has not been the case for many years. It says rather a lot about your interest in a truthful debate that you don’t think that detail matters. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/91 "2014-05-03T06:17:58Z")
> [@ruadh](#): > > You said that SF have “vigorously opposed” a truth and reconciliation process. The site shows that that has not been the case for many years. It says rather a lot about your interest in a truthful debate that you don’t think that detail matters. They opposed it when it was offered. Since then they will not accept a process governed by joint UK Irish Governments. They make requests impossible for a normal state to agree to. Adams deserves what is comong- it could have been settled by now. McGuiness next. At least the next generation of Sinn Fein will be largely blameless. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/92 "2014-05-03T06:19:02Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Sounds awful, but pretty much par for the course for such situations. Amongst the Palestinians she’d be referred to as an “ameel”(collaborator) and she’d have been killed in a vastly more brutal fashion after first giving a video-taped confession of her treason which would have been a popular rental at video stores in the West Bank and in South Africa rather than getting beaten to death she’d have died screaming with a burning tire on her neck. > > I know the IRA think they were badasses but frankly they were pussies compared to the Al-Fatah, Hamas, Azapo and Umkhonto We Sizwe and the various groups who claimed to be affiliated with them. > > Again, nothing I’d support but again, I don’t see the point in charging him. > > I think the Israelis have the right idea about sometimes turning a blind eye to those with “a little blood on their hands”. > > Anyway if the Israelis could stomach Arafat I don’t see why the British can’t stomach Adams. Speaking for myself I can stomach Adams and McGuiness, it is the hypocrisy that I cannot stomach. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/93 "2014-05-03T13:06:30Z")
[Don’t Ignore Northern Ireland’s Ghosts](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/03/opinion/dont-ignore-northern-irelands-ghosts.html?src=twr&_r=1), interesting op/ed piece by Anne Cadwallader. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/94 "2014-05-03T13:58:06Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > [Don’t Ignore Northern Ireland’s Ghosts](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/03/opinion/dont-ignore-northern-irelands-ghosts.html?src=twr&_r=1), interesting op/ed piece by Anne Cadwallader. That is a fair summary. It does not lessen my feeling ox schadenfreude in seeing the smiling gunman hypocrite being made to face up to his past though. I am in no way a unionist, but so long as Sinn Fein try to get individual soldiers of the British Army prosecuted, they cannot complain about a unit commander who issued death squad orders being investigated. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/95 "2014-05-03T15:18:43Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > . I am in no way a unionist, but so long as Sinn Fein try to get individual soldiers of the British Army prosecuted, they cannot complain about a unit commander who issued death squad orders being investigated. Well yes that would be the more delicious poetic justice - even more than resisting a T&R committee. Do you have recent examples? ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/96 "2014-05-03T23:08:55Z")
> [@](#): > > The people deploying such arguments are making excuses, avoiding the real reason they tremble at the thought of Adams in the dock. The heart of the matter is much harder to say out loud. If confronted with one of the McConville children few would dare say it to their face. > > It is this. In places torn by war, there is all too often a choice to be made between justice and peace. We may want both; we may cry out for both. But the bleak truth is, we cannot have both. > > Though we have been wary of admitting it, Northern Ireland has been a classic case. One price of the Good Friday agreement was the early release of men of violence who had committed heinous crimes. Justice demanded they stayed behind bars. Peace demanded they be set free. Peace won. Jonathan Freedland writing in the Guardian, [Whatever Gerry Adams’ past, peace takes precedence over justice.](http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/02/gerry-adams-jean-mcconville-south-africa-painful-compromise) ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/97 "2014-05-03T23:17:24Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Jonathan Freedland writing in the Guardian, [Whatever Gerry Adams’ past, peace takes precedence over justice.](http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/02/gerry-adams-jean-mcconville-south-africa-painful-compromise) I do agree with that. Perhaps what is needed is an agreement that neither Adams nor McGuiness or other high ranking IRA commanders will be pursued, but neither will British Army officers and men responsible for the killings on Bloody Sunday. Both Sinn Fein and the British Government should STFU about who did what to whom. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/98 "2014-05-03T23:32:09Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > I do agree with that. > > Perhaps what is needed is an agreement that neither Adams nor McGuiness or other high ranking IRA commanders will be pursued, but neither will British Army officers and men responsible for the killings on Bloody Sunday. Both Sinn Fein and the British Government should STFU about who did what to whom. Either a “Let’s not talk about this ever again” type scenario or a TRC-type set-up to frees participants from any liability for pre-'98 crimes. It’s shitty for the families of victims but I suspect the alternative could be much worse for our society as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/99 "2014-05-03T23:42:17Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Speaking for myself I can stomach Adams and McGuiness, it is the hypocrisy that I cannot stomach. If you’re for people who don’t engage in hypocrisy when it comes to armed conflicts, well you’re looking in the wrong place. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/100 "2014-05-03T23:43:37Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > If you’re for people who don’t engage in hypocrisy when it comes to armed conflicts, well you’re looking in the wrong place. That is no problem. When they claim to be statesman, it is a problem. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425.md?page=6)