# Gerry Adams- Ex IRA Guman, Ex Deputy First Minister Arrested- Hoist by his own Petard? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 1, 2014, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425 "2014-05-01T08:39:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/101 "2014-05-04T00:28:25Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > That is no problem. When they claim to be statesman, it is a problem. 'fraid you’re going to have difficult time finding “statesmen” in such conflicts who aren’t hypocrites. Talk to Eamon De Valera, Michael Collins, Chris Hani, Nelson Mandella, Jomo Kenyatta, Anwar Sadat, King Hussein, Yitzhak Shamir, Yitzhak Rabin Ariel Sharon, Yasser Arafat, Mahmoud Abbas, Winston Churchill and that’s just who came to mind off the top of my head. ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/102 "2014-05-04T00:47:10Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > …although the belief execution makes martyrs is generally bogus… In the case of Ireland it made Sinn Fein and consequently PIRA. There wasn’t a great deal of popular support for the Easter Rising of 1916, but the executions, particularly of Connelly (who was dying and was shot strapped to a stretcher put upright against a prison wall), turned public opinion towards them. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/103 "2014-05-04T02:32:54Z")
> [@mascaroni](#): > > In the case of Ireland it made Sinn Fein and consequently PIRA. > > There wasn’t a great deal of popular support for the Easter Rising of 1916, but the executions, particularly of Connelly (who was dying and was shot strapped to a stretcher put upright against a prison wall), turned public opinion towards them. I believe Plunkett was dying of tuberculosis as well. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/104 "2014-05-04T04:47:25Z")
Say, while we’re 40 years after the fact, is it too late to add some Whataboutery re: “Mad Dog” Johnny Adair and a few others cut from the same Track Suit who made life so much more … interesting? ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/105 "2014-05-04T05:26:36Z")
> [@Count\_Blucher](#): > > Say, while we’re 40 years after the fact, is it too late to add some Whataboutery re: “Mad Dog” Johnny Adair and a few others cut from the same Track Suit who made life so much more … interesting? Sure this is it. Where do you start or finish with regard to activities during the Troubles in NI? ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/106 "2014-05-04T16:43:48Z")
Apparently it is about to be announced that Adams will be released without charge. The police will send their file of evidence to the authority responsible in Northern Ireland for deciding on whether charges should be brought, thus taking the pressure of the PSNI and spiking Sinn Fein guns (so to speak) a little. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/107 "2014-05-04T18:41:16Z")
He slipped out the back of the police station as there was a loyalist protest trying to block him leaving. He’s having a press conference in 20 minutes. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/108 "2014-05-04T20:57:49Z")
My late mother once visited the Republic and found out that most people there don’t care at all whether they ever get NI back or not. How do they feel in NI these days? ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/109 "2014-05-04T23:00:07Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I believe Plunkett was dying of tuberculosis as well. He probably would have succumbed to it at some stage, but with Connolly it seemed like a race to shoot him before he died of his wounds. The doctor treating him said he would have been unlikely to survive more than 48 hours. Although, to put it in context, a few months earlier 20,000 British soldiers (including Irish at that time) were killed in a single day in the Somme offensive. On the subject of ‘Truth and Reconciliation’: It has to work both ways and I don’t think sections of the British military and secret services would be too keen on it. It would mean coming clean about the Force Research Unit, the actions of Nairac and Ball, and the handling of “Stakeknife”, the alleged IRA enforcer who they claim saved hundreds of lives at the cost of some innocent ones. Which is is all very well, unless you’re one of the unlucky innocents. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/110 "2014-05-04T23:22:56Z")
> [@mascaroni](#): > > On the subject of ‘Truth and Reconciliation’: It has to work both ways and I don’t think sections of the British military and secret services would be too keen on it. Not sure Martin McGuiness would be massively keen on his relationship with the security services being exposed either. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/111 "2014-05-04T23:46:00Z")
One of the things I’ve learned about the Troubles is that very few actors come out of it smelling of roses. ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/112 "2014-05-04T23:50:56Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Not sure Martin McGuiness would be massively keen on his relationship with the security services being exposed either. It’s well documented that there were meetings between high level British government officials and Sinn Fein from the mid seventies. I wouldn’t have liked to have been the person at the DHSS who had to say “have you done any work this week Mr. McGuiness?” though… ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/113 "2014-05-04T23:56:46Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > One of the things I’ve learned about the Troubles is that very few actors come out of it smelling of roses. Gardens with roses always seem to smell of horse manure… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/114 "2014-05-05T01:05:08Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > One of the things I’ve learned about the Troubles is that very few actors come out of it smelling of roses. Would you say they’re entirely over, now? ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/115 "2014-05-05T01:20:12Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Would you say they’re entirely over, now? Depends I suppose, on how you define it. For the most part, yes they are, but in the last few years there have been political murders, most notable being that of PSNI officer Ronan Kerr in 2011. These are mainly the work of dissident republican groups. The Loyalist [flegs protests](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belfast_City_Hall_flag_protests) have been ongoing since 2012 but apart from inconveniencing people and possibly putting off tourists they haven’t amounted to all that much. Dissident republican bombs go off on a semi-regular basis in parts of the North but thankfully in recent times there have been no deaths or significant injuries that I’m aware of. I have tonnes of friends and some family in Belfast area so every now and then I see them on Twitter etc asking “Did anyone just hear that?” Such attacks are typically followed by tutting about it putting off shoppers. It doesn’t seem likely to me that the North could slide into violence of the level seen in the 1970s and 1980s, outside of a few pockets there is no significant support for dissident republican violence, but I am not sure if it will ever be totally out of the clear, or at least not for another long while. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/116 "2014-05-06T07:15:17Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > They opposed it when it was offered. Since then they will not accept a process governed by joint UK Irish Governments. They make requests impossible for a normal state to agree to. SF supported the [proposals](http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/dec/31/northern-ireland-talks-collapse-as-main-unionist-parties-reject-haass-proposals) by Richard Haass several months ago to deal with a number of contentious issues including the past. These were not opposed by the UK or Irish government, only by unionists. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/117 "2014-05-06T07:26:26Z")
> [@ruadh](#): > > SF supported the [proposals](http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/dec/31/northern-ireland-talks-collapse-as-main-unionist-parties-reject-haass-proposals) by Richard Haass several months ago to deal with a number of contentious issues including the past. These were not opposed by the UK or Irish government, only by unionists. But previously refused to countenance any commission unless the British Government was excluded. Glad to see they have changed. Shame about the threats to withdraw support from the PSNI. I suspect that the bad blood will not go until Adams and McGuinness have retired. At least on the Unionist side the prominent current politicians were not previously commanders of terrorist gangs. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/118 "2014-05-06T12:40:16Z")
> [@Count\_Blucher](#): > > The Catholic Church? > > In bed with 50 years of the angry hopes and dreams of [Ian Paisley](http://forgetoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/ian_paisley.jpg)? > > The Devil be Damned! I’M laughing at that concept! Sorry for posting in GD. I was just out for a quart of milk admiring all these new brightly colored curbstones in GD when I saw the thread. > > I’ll get me coat… Well, I’m glad I made you laugh, but it was only because you totally misread what I posted. The Catholic Church are _not_ on the same side as Sinn Fein in this issue (gay marriage, FTR, since my original post isn’t included in the mutli-quote). TBH, I’m not sure how you could have read my post that way. > [@Pjen](#): > > I do agree with that. > > Perhaps what is needed is an agreement that neither Adams nor McGuiness or other high ranking IRA commanders will be pursued, but neither will British Army officers and men responsible for the killings on Bloody Sunday. Both Sinn Fein and the British Government should STFU about who did what to whom. Agreed. “Truth and reconciliation” is just not possible because the former would make the latter impossible, because it’s all pretty recent really and the country is so small. It’s not like South Africa, where the people who did terrible things were sometimes doing them to people who lived hundreds of miles away - Jean McConville’s son probably really does frequently walk past some of his mother’s captors while going shopping. It’d be a bit hard to reconcile with them while you see them every day and know that they got off scot-free for murdering your mother. ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/119 "2014-05-06T22:40:32Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > …“Truth and reconciliation” is just not possible because the former would make the latter impossible, because it’s all pretty recent really and the country is so small… Rwanda isn’t that big either and the killings were on a vastly larger scale, but they’ve followed a fairly similar policy. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2014, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425/120 "2014-05-07T06:54:00Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > At least on the Unionist side the prominent current politicians were not previously commanders of terrorist gangs. Google “Peter Robinson”, “Clontibret”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gerry-adams-ex-ira-guman-ex-deputy-first-minister-arrested-hoist-by-his-own-petard/687425.md?page=7)