# Get a grip, Jonathan **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [August 24, 2015, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-a-grip-jonathan/728713 "2015-08-24T12:54:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-a-grip-jonathan/728713/1 "2015-08-24T12:54:39Z")
[From here.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18625793&postcount=307) > [@](#): > > Elvis, you really don’t get to criticize other posters here. Don’t make it personal. > > If you can’t do that, I encourage you to rethink what you’re doing here. 1. Where do you see that? Quote, please. 2. Scroll up. That is all. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-a-grip-jonathan/728713/2 "2015-08-24T13:41:13Z")
Yeah; I’m missing that one as well. I’m not seeing anything that personal about any of us involved. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-a-grip-jonathan/728713/3 "2015-08-24T13:53:02Z")
Not seeing it either. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-a-grip-jonathan/728713/4 "2015-08-24T14:10:24Z")
Yeah, that’s a pretty terrible mod call. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-a-grip-jonathan/728713/5 "2015-08-24T15:03:27Z")
It’s one of those mod comments that reference possible impending doom if things go the way they appear to be headed. Remember, we did this before here and many felt these comments were preferable to waiting until things went sideways and warnings flew. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-a-grip-jonathan/728713/6 "2015-08-24T15:26:34Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > [From here.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18625793&postcount=307) > > 1. Where do you see that? Quote, please. You posted (emphasis added): > [@](#): > > You can go on helping the Republicans take back the White House if you want, but don’t expect not to get severely criticized for it. **JC** said you can’t criticize other posters, which is EXACTLY what you said you were planning on doing. But it seems like **Shayna’s** reply was worse, and maybe missed due to the time of posting. Junior Modding, without a doubt. Even written in the style of moderation here: > [@Shayna](#): > > You don’t GET to criticize me here, so KNOCK IT OFF. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-a-grip-jonathan/728713/7 "2015-08-24T15:28:06Z")
Is there some special rule in Elections that says you cannot criticize posters? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-a-grip-jonathan/728713/8 "2015-08-24T15:32:09Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Is there some special rule in Elections that says you cannot criticize posters? If the criticism gets “personal”, yes. In that post, **Elvis** is threatening to criticize her if she helps the GOP get their candidate elected. Criticize her, not her ideas. And not just criticize, “severely criticize”. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-a-grip-jonathan/728713/9 "2015-08-24T15:35:30Z")
I guess what I’m asking is whether that is supposed to be the ordinary GD rule forbidding attacks on the poster, or if it’s some more protective Elections variant. If it’s the former, then I’d be a little surprised. If I say, “your ideas and preferences will cause our country ruin!” am I out of line in GD? I wouldn’t have thought so. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-a-grip-jonathan/728713/10 "2015-08-24T15:38:48Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > I guess what I’m asking is whether that is supposed to be the ordinary GD rule forbidding attacks on the poster, or if it’s some more protective Elections variant. > > If it’s the former, then I’d be a little surprised. If I say, “your ideas and preferences will cause our country ruin!” am I out of line in GD? I wouldn’t have thought so. I think GD and Elections are pretty much the same. Your hypothetical is fine, because you didn’t say “You are ruining the country”, you said “your ideas are…” Things have been like this for as long as I can remember. As **JC** said, don’t make it personal. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-a-grip-jonathan/728713/11 "2015-08-24T15:44:49Z")
I’m surprised this is so controversial. Imagine this exchange in GD or Elections: Poster 1: We should raise the minimum wage to $50/hour. Poster 2: You’re crazy!! Poster 3: That’s a crazy idea!! Hasn’t it been SOP that poster 2 is out of line while poster 3 is not? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-a-grip-jonathan/728713/12 "2015-08-24T15:50:17Z")
I think we can take it as read that he meant her ideas and not her hairstyle or dress sense. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-a-grip-jonathan/728713/13 "2015-08-24T15:52:23Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m surprised this is so controversial. Imagine this exchange in GD or Elections: > > Poster 1: We should raise the minimum wage to $50/hour. > > Poster 2: You’re crazy!! > > Poster 3: That’s a crazy idea!! > > Hasn’t it been SOP that poster 2 is out of line while poster 3 is not? You’re probably right. That doesn’t make it not one of the stupidest SOPs in the world. There’s no effective difference in the level of insult between posters 1 and 2 and this is a rule that certainly would not be obeyed in real-life discourse, so why bother with it here. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-a-grip-jonathan/728713/14 "2015-08-24T15:55:42Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > I think we can take it as read that he meant her ideas and not her hairstyle or dress sense. You can argue, if you want, that when someone says “you” they mean “your ideas”, but this has been the rule for as long as I can remember, and it’s going to continue being the rule. Criticize the post, not the poster. Especially if you are going to literally use the word “criticize”. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-a-grip-jonathan/728713/15 "2015-08-24T16:06:32Z")
Please point out the part of “You can go on helping the Republicans take back the White House if you want, but don’t expect not to get severely criticized for it.” that means “If you don’t stop, I’m going to _criticize_ you.” To me, it’s so clearly on the order of “Lie down with dogs, wake up with fleas” in both meaning and severity that I find it absurd that it’s being modded and that anyone is defending it. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-a-grip-jonathan/728713/16 "2015-08-24T16:07:42Z")
I guess I had thought that while we phrased the rule as attack the post and not the poster, what we meant was that you are entitled to attack a person’s ideas (however phrased) but not their character. So I thought we could say, “Your opposition to gay marriage makes the world a worse place,” but not say “Your opposition to gay marriage is because your heart is black with hatred.” Entirely possible that I never properly understood the rule though. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-a-grip-jonathan/728713/17 "2015-08-24T16:10:03Z")
I would say you understand the rule as we all did circa 2007 but there’s been a wave of moderation rulings that reveal it’s specific words and phrasings that are insulting. “You’re mistaken” is an insult of the highest order but “This post wins the least connected to reality prize of the day” is completely inoffensive and appropriate in any forum. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-a-grip-jonathan/728713/18 "2015-08-24T16:14:15Z")
Keep in mind that this was a mod note, not a warning. Mod notes are often given when a moderator thinks a poster is approaching the line, even if he hasn’t crossed it. I don’t know whether this was the case or not here, but you don’t have to break a rule to get a mod note. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-a-grip-jonathan/728713/19 "2015-08-24T16:14:29Z")
One thing I have learned here, and it is pretty simple. The rules are whatever a Mod says they are. End of story. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-a-grip-jonathan/728713/20 "2015-08-24T16:19:28Z")
Nobody on this board is going to individually, single-handedly give the White House back to the Republicans. The only way that I can see to take that remark seriously, “You can go on helping the Republicans take back the White House if you want, but don’t expect not to get severely criticized for it.”, is to read it as: You [meaning all of you, collectively] can go on helping the Republicans take back the White House if you want, but don’t expect not to get severely criticized [meaning publicly criticized collectively] for it. Compare with Ralph Nader’s reception last time he ran for president: He was widely and publicly criticized for handing the White House to the Republicans (GWB specifically), or one could have taken that as being: All the voters who voted for Nader were, collectively, criticized for that. The comment under question here seems to be of that same form. Much as I dislike **ElvisL1vis** from what I’ve seen of him in many threads, I have to defend him here. I didn’t see anything personal in his remark. All I can see in it is “[All of] You [collectively, who that that position] . . . get severely criticized.” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-a-grip-jonathan/728713.md?page=2)