# Get accepted to Harvard for being smart, get kicked out for being stupid
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Created:** [June 6, 2017, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285 "2017-06-06T18:26:12Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2017, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285/1 "2017-06-06T18:26:12Z")
[http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/harvard-withdraws-10-acceptances-for-offensive-memes-in-private-group-chat/ar-BBC0v4N?OCID=ansmsnnews11](http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/harvard-withdraws-10-acceptances-for-offensive-memes-in-private-group-chat/ar-BBC0v4N?OCID=ansmsnnews11)
Knuckleheads! :smack: It’s 2017, people! Haven’t you learned anything the last few year?
I’m glad I’m too stupid to learn to Facebook or text! I’d probably wreck what’s left of the shambles of my life. 😃
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### Author:  [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2017, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285/2 "2017-06-06T18:31:04Z")
I feel badly for their parents, who probably sacrificed a lot to get them into a really good school.
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### Author:  [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2017, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285/3 "2017-06-06T18:48:29Z")
> [@Count\_Blucher](#):
>
> I feel badly for their parents, who probably sacrificed a lot to get them into a really good school.
The parents should invoice them.
It’s not just that this sort of asshattery pervades so many social strata (we knew that) but that so many people to this day still fail to understand the general social networks are NOT private or secure. Even people who are Harvard bound.
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### Author:  [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2017, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285/4 "2017-06-06T18:53:18Z")
> [@Count\_Blucher](#):
>
> I feel badly for their parents, who probably sacrificed a lot to get them into a really good school.
It’s gonna be a _real awkward_ Thanksgiving Dinner this fall.
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### Author:  [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2017, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285/5 "2017-06-06T19:05:28Z")
If they even get invited. If any kid of mine did something that stupid, they’d be kicked out of the house so fast my grandkids would be dizzy!
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### Author:  [@steatopygia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steatopygia)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2017, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285/6 "2017-06-06T19:13:09Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#):
>
> The parents should invoice them.
> It’s not just that this sort of asshattery pervades so many social strata (we knew that) but that so many people to this day still fail to understand the general social networks are NOT private or secure. Even people who are Harvard bound.
It isn’t that they don’t understand security, they just don’t understand why it is wrong to make offensive posts public. They are young, some will grow into that understanding, some never will.
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### Author:  [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2017, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285/7 "2017-06-06T19:52:09Z")
> [@Count\_Blucher](#):
>
> I feel badly for their parents, who probably sacrificed a lot to get them into a really good school.
I don’t feel sorry for parents who should have spent more time raising their children properly instead of whatever they may have done to help them get into a really good school. I don’t know that there’s any fault on the part of the parents in this situation, but it wouldn’t surprise me if there was in some way. I do feel sorry for a lot of parents who have sacrificed for their children only to have their children throw those sacrifices down the drain.
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### Author:  [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Channing_Idaho_Banks)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2017, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285/8 "2017-06-06T20:12:22Z")
The students weren’t kicked out. They never even started.
> [@](#):
>
> The at least 10 incoming students who participated in the chat received letters informing them that their offers of admission had been revoked.
Harvard is innocent. fake news! Sad!!
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### Author:  [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2017, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285/9 "2017-06-06T20:32:28Z")
I think this is stupid of Harvard.
No one was in the chat who didn’t want to be there and the chat wasn’t sponsored by or moderated by Harvard, right? If the kids had rented a conference room at Denny’s and told off-color and racist jokes to each other, and then one of them told someone else about it, would Harvard rescind their offers?
What if the group was a comedy troupe?
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### Author:  [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2017, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285/10 "2017-06-06T20:42:41Z")
It used to be that people had their Harvard offers rescinded for cheating, which at least got you something, however unethically. These people got kicked out for nothing more than the chance to be stupid.
> [@](#):
>
> If the kids had rented a conference room at Denny’s and told off-color and racist jokes to each other, and then one of them told someone else about it, would Harvard rescind their offers?
Assuming it wasn’t recorded, probably not. That’s the whole point. While there is definitely stupidity in making inappropriate remarks, the real stupidity is doing it on social media. Feel like telling inappropriate jokes? Do it privately with a few of your closest friends. If you can get into Harvard, you are smart enough not to do it in a way that will expose you and get your offer rescinded.
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### Author:  [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2017, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285/11 "2017-06-06T20:49:42Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#):
>
> No one was in the chat who didn’t want to be there and the chat wasn’t sponsored by or moderated by Harvard, right?
It was, sort of, sponsored or moderated by Harvard. The offensive private chat group spun off the “official Harvard College Class of 2021 Facebook group” which was “set up and maintained by the Admissions Office.”
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### Author:  [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2017, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285/12 "2017-06-06T20:52:51Z")
> [@Count\_Blucher](#):
>
> I feel badly for their parents, who probably sacrificed a lot to get them into a really good school.
I wouldn’t feel too badly for them.
Just think how much money the parents will save in tuition, fees and other expenses by sending their kids to the local community college instead of Harvard.
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### Author:  [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2017, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285/13 "2017-06-06T20:58:24Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#):
>
> I think this is stupid of Harvard.
>
> No one was in the chat who didn’t want to be there and the chat wasn’t sponsored by or moderated by Harvard, right? If the kids had rented a conference room at Denny’s and told off-color and racist jokes to each other, and then one of them told someone else about it, would Harvard rescind their offers?
probably, Harvard can, and does, rescind admissions for any number of reasons
> [@](#):
>
> “As a reminder, Harvard College reserves the right to withdraw an offer of admission under various conditions including if an admitted student engages in behavior that brings into question his or her honesty, maturity, or moral character,”
mc
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### Author:  [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2017, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285/14 "2017-06-06T21:03:29Z")
I think Harvard did the right thing.
A deeper concern, not just for Harvard but for all the elite schools, is: how, when the admissions process has become so intense, are students like Brock Turner and the kind of kids who would make racist/pedophiliac jokes getting accepted? Should admissions offices be doing more to find out what kind of character their applicants possess?
I don’t claim to have an answer, but if I were in the college admissions business at an elite school, I’m sure I’d be pondering this very seriously.
.
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### Author:  [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2017, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285/15 "2017-06-06T21:04:15Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#):
>
> It used to be that people had their Harvard offers rescinded for cheating, which at least got you something, however unethically. These people got kicked out for nothing more than the chance to be stupid.
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#):
>
> Assuming it wasn’t recorded, probably not. That’s the whole point. While there is definitely stupidity in making inappropriate remarks, the real stupidity is doing it on social media. Feel like telling inappropriate jokes? Do it privately with a few of your closest friends. If you can get into Harvard, you are smart enough not to do it in a way that will expose you and get your offer rescinded.
First, I don’t think that posting something in private chat is at all the same as posting in a public chat. And near as I can tell from that article, it’s the stuff that was posted in the private chat that got offers rescinded.
Second, who cares if they recorded themselves telling off-color jokes? If they recorded it and put it online as a bunch of stand-up routines, would it still be reason to rescind their offers? Why? What if the video was a big commercial hit; would that change the perception of the content of the jokes or their appropriateness?
So in this case the kids DID record it (well, Facebook did anyway) but it was still private. If a kid made a video of himself telling these same jokes but only showed it to 6 people, would that be enough to kick him out of school or rescind his admission offer? Why?
I don’t think there’s much justification to be found in the directive quoted here, about “behavior that brings into question his or her honesty, maturity, or moral character” since I don’t think these telling these types of jokes necessarily reveal any defect in “honesty, maturity, or moral character”.
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### Author:  [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2017, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285/16 "2017-06-06T21:08:46Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#):
>
> It was, sort of, sponsored or moderated by Harvard. The offensive private chat group spun off the “official Harvard College Class of 2021 Facebook group” which was “set up and maintained by the Admissions Office.”
No, it was not “sort of” sponsored or moderated by Harvard. That claim is ridiculous.
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### Author:  [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2017, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285/17 "2017-06-06T21:25:08Z")
On a somewhat related note, Harvard also recently forfeited its men’s soccer team’s playoff participation because the players were discovered to have been [rating](http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2016/11/4/soccer-suspended-scouting-report-harvard/) the physical attributes of the women’s team members in a written “scouting report.”
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### Author:  [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2017, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285/18 "2017-06-06T21:32:46Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#):
>
> First, I don’t think that posting something in private chat is at all the same as posting in a public chat. And near as I can tell from that article, it’s the stuff that was posted in the private chat that got offers rescinded. character".
Of course it is. That is exactly the point that these potential students did not understand. What you put on social media, whether it is ostensibly private or not, is subject to being discovered and causing you problems. That’s why you don’t text naked pictures of yourself to underage girls. That’s why you don’t send classified information through a private email system. That is how you get in trouble.
We live in a different world now, and anything that goes through the Internet cannot be compared to private in-person interactions. People who don’t understand that are too stupid to go to Harvard.
Edit: In reviewing the story posted above about the men’s soccer team, it appears that they posted their ratings on a Google Group. “Locker room banter” = unpleasant and inappropriate. Posting it online = No more season for you.
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### Author:  [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2017, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285/19 "2017-06-06T21:35:47Z")
I am somewhat troubled by the recent trend toward zero tolerance applied to young people. I see this as fitting into that category. My reason is that young people up to a certain age are still learning - they will try to find where the line is. They are not fully formed, we shouldn’t expect them to be.
As adults, we are expected to let them know when they have stepped over the line. But, I believe we have to provide the young people the space to “fail” (exceed boundaries) without severe draconian consequences. (Certainly I am not including criminal behavior in this).
In cases like this; being transgressive, taking jokes too far, in other words - being immature, I would support revoking any scholarships, academic probation, even requirements for hours of community service. IMHO these punishments would “teach the lesson” sufficiently, being short of revoking admission.
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### Author:  [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2017, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285/20 "2017-06-06T22:10:21Z")
> [@Icarus](#):
>
> In cases like this; being transgressive, taking jokes too far, in other words - being immature, I would support revoking any scholarships, academic probation, even requirements for hours of community service. IMHO these punishments would “teach the lesson” sufficiently, being short of revoking admission.
This is a unique case. Harvard has absolutely no responsibility to these applicants - it doesn’t need to teach them a lesson. There were over 39,000 applicants for only 2,056 spots. Harvard can afford to be as selective as it likes. Somewhere in the remaining 37,000 students, there have to be 10 who are not this stupid.
And hopefully the next group of applicants will get the message.
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285.md?page=2)