# Get accepted to Harvard for being smart, get kicked out for being stupid
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Created:** [June 6, 2017, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285 "2017-06-06T18:26:12Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2017, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285/21 "2017-06-06T22:47:42Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#):
>
> Just think how much money the parents will save in tuition, fees and other expenses by sending their kids to the local community college instead of Harvard.
Unless you have some special knowledge of the families involved, keep in mind most students there aren’t paying full tuition. Expected parental contribution is zero for families making under $65k. My local CC can’t beat that.
---
### Author:  [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2017, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285/22 "2017-06-06T23:08:27Z")
I see this as no different than you agreeing to go out on a date with someone at work. They seem like the perfect person. But right before the big date, you overhear them talking shit about another coworker in the breakroom and you realize they aren’t so perfect. Maybe they’d be fine for someone with lower standards. But you’ve been around the block enough times to know a jerkwad when you see one.
Frankly, I’m sick of people taking their good fortune for granted. There are millions of people who’d love the opportunity to learn at an Ivy League. They are smart. They are charming. They are creative and ambitious. And they are mature enough to know that ass-showing should be a private activity Why wouldn’t Harvard have a problem with rejecting these students in favor of straight-up idiots? What cave-dweller doesn’t know by now that everything on social media is fair game?
---
### Author:  [@MareIt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MareIt)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2017, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285/23 "2017-06-06T23:26:40Z")
To join the ‘unsponsored’ group, you had to post offensive stuff to the main sponsored group. That right there is a sign of a willingness to to be a dumbass that Harvard shouldn’t ignore.
And while I agree that kids are prone to being stupid, that doesn’t mean that there should be no consequences for it. otherwise how to they learn to not be jerks when in the workforce? Because like it or not, those kids WILL one day be our bosses, doctors, nurses, lawyers or government. I’d rather that they learn to not be assholes before that happens.
---
### Author:  [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2017, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285/24 "2017-06-06T23:30:33Z")
Might as well put surveillance on their phones and in their bathrooms. Make sure they aren’t watching or saying anything unacceptable.
---
### Author:  [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2017, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285/25 "2017-06-06T23:31:37Z")
> [@monstro](#):
>
> I see this as no different than you agreeing to go out on a date with someone at work. They seem like the perfect person. But right before the big date, you overhear them talking shit about another coworker in the breakroom and you realize they aren’t so perfect. Maybe they’d be fine for someone with lower standards. But you’ve been around the block enough times to know a jerkwad when you see one.
>
> Frankly, I’m sick of people taking their good fortune for granted. There are millions of people who’d love the opportunity to learn at an Ivy League. They are smart. They are charming. They are creative and ambitious. And they are mature enough to know that ass-showing should be a private activity Why wouldn’t Harvard have a problem with rejecting these students in favor of straight-up idiots? What cave-dweller doesn’t know by now that everything on social media is fair game?
Or anywhere someone has a hidden camera.
---
### Author:  [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2017, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285/26 "2017-06-06T23:47:01Z")
> [@octopus](#):
>
> Or anywhere someone has a hidden camera.
Well one could always decide not to be a racist, sexist, homophobic jerk.
---
### Author:  [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2017, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285/27 "2017-06-07T00:07:55Z")
> [@Icarus](#):
>
> I am somewhat troubled by the recent trend toward zero tolerance applied to young people. I see this as fitting into that category. My reason is that young people up to a certain age are still learning - they will try to find where the line is. They are not fully formed, we shouldn’t expect them to be.
I don’t see how this is “zero tolerance.” I know some people love to latch on to the whole “the human brain isn’t done developing until the mid-20s” thing, but that has been taken to absolutely fucking _absurd_ levels where we treat 21, 22, 23 year old people as though they are still _children._
They.
Are.
Not.
Children.
They are _more_ than old enough to understand that actions have consequences. At least, they should.
Christ. at work, I’ve heard people having cell phone conversations in the hallway outside of my lab. One in particular was some guy bitching at his son. One part I overheard was him saying “look, you’re 23, you really need to stop sitting on your ass and get a job.”
1.
good lord. I had my engineering degree and was already working for a good salary when I was 21.
if your son or daughter still needs you to hover over them and spoon feed them because “they’re children, their brains aren’t finished developing yet” then YOU are the problem.
> [@](#):
>
> they will try to find where the line is.
the problem is not that they’re “trying to find where the line is,” it’s that we keep moving the line further and further out. a hundred years ago, literal children were working strenuous, dangerous jobs to help support their families. Today, we let 25 year olds sit around and do nothing because they’re “just kids.”
there’s got to be a realistic middle in between those extremes somewhere.
---
### Author:  [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2017, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285/28 "2017-06-07T00:36:31Z")
> [@octopus](#):
>
> Might as well put surveillance on their phones and in their bathrooms. Make sure they aren’t watching or saying anything unacceptable.
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#):
>
> Well one could always decide not to be a racist, sexist, homophobic jerk.
I’m all for doing and thinking whatever the hell you want. But if you’re stupid enough to fucking publish it on the internet, be prepared to pay for it.
Of course, I can post all the stupid shit I want. Got nothin’ left to lose. Except maybe this mouse…
---
### Author:  [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2017, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285/29 "2017-06-07T00:50:49Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#):
>
> On a somewhat related note, Harvard also recently forfeited its men’s soccer team’s playoff participation because the players were discovered to have been [rating](http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2016/11/4/soccer-suspended-scouting-report-harvard/) the physical attributes of the women’s team members in a written “scouting report.”
A fairly similar idea is what started Facebook. Harvard needs to jump off the social activism wagon that they have been on for a long time now.
I don’t like the decision and it is because the kids (and yes they are still kids) involved haven’t taken a single class yet. Harvard is indirectly admitting that it really isn’t in the undergraduate education business but that shouldn’t be a shocker.
What they do is pick the most talented young people that they can find, put them together socially for a few years and then reap the benefits from it when many of them become very successful. Its two most financially successful attendees, Bill Gates and Mark Zukerberg didn’t even see the value in finishing.
However, their main business is managing their gigantic endowment (currently about 38 billion dollars) to support whatever projects that they want or to buy anyone that they want. Quality of undergraduate education is barely a blip on the radar. Grade inflation was so rampant a few years ago that almost everyone graduated with honors.
Compare that with MIT right down the street. They actually care about undergraduate education and will work students to find their true academic potential.
All Harvard had to do was make the people in question take some of their so-called renowned diversity classes.
---
### Author:  [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2017, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285/30 "2017-06-07T02:07:21Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#):
>
> Somewhere in the remaining 37,000 students, there have to be 10 who are not this stupid.
Somewhere out there there are ten families doing the happy dance this week because it turns out their kids HAVE got into Harvard after all! We just aren’t likely to see their smiling faces in the newspapers.
---
### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2017, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285/31 "2017-06-07T02:30:17Z")
This is interesting because it was a private exchange:
But according to the Harvard Crimson article, written by Harvard student Hannah Natanson, representatives from the admissions office emailed the implicated students asking them to disclose every picture they sent in the group.
“The Admissions Committee was disappointed to learn that several students in a private group chat for the Class of 2021 were sending messages that contained offensive messages and graphics,” read a copy of the Admissions Office’s email obtained by the Crimson. “As we understand you were among the members contributing such material to this chat, we are asking that you submit a statement by tomorrow at noon to explain your contributions and actions for discussion with the Admissions Committee.”
If this was a private exchange then how is Harvard able to compel the students to divulge anything?
---
### Author:  [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2017, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285/32 "2017-06-07T02:55:04Z")
> [@Magiver](#):
>
> If this was a private exchange then how is Harvard able to compel the students to divulge anything?
That entirely depends on what you mean by “compel” here.
---
### Author:  [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2017, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285/33 "2017-06-07T02:59:28Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#):
>
> I think this is stupid of Harvard.
>
> No one was in the chat who didn’t want to be there and the chat wasn’t sponsored by or moderated by Harvard, right? If the kids had rented a conference room at Denny’s and told off-color and racist jokes to each other, and then one of them told someone else about it, would Harvard rescind their offers?
If a bunch of future undergrads rented out a private room so they could tell each other “nigger” jokes, and some how a video of it got out, I would absolutely expect their admissions to be rescinded. I’d be shocked if they were not.
> [@Shagnasty](#):
>
> I don’t like the decision and it is because the kids (and yes they are still kids) involved haven’t taken a single class yet. Harvard is indirectly admitting that it really isn’t in the undergraduate education business but that shouldn’t be a shocker.
There are any number of things Harvard expects its incoming students to know before they start at Harvard, and most of those things are significantly harder to grasp than, “Don’t be racist in public.” If Harvard doesn’t grant admittance to people who can’t pass a high school math class, are they “admitting that they aren’t really in the undergraduate education business?” Or are they establishing that they have higher standards of expected knowledge and behavior for their incoming freshmen, and that students who don’t meet that standard would be better served at a different college?
---
### Author:  [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2017, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285/34 "2017-06-07T03:04:46Z")
> [@Magiver](#):
>
> If this was a private exchange then how is Harvard able to compel the students to divulge anything?
They probably don’t legally but Harvard is a private institution as well. They have the provision to revoke admission for anyone for almost any reason so they are probably legally clear.
My question is what did those already admitted do exactly? All they would say is that they were spreading offensive memes with no context. Great, one of their dropouts is the is the facilitator of the most offensive memes in history on Facebook but that shouldn’t be a high crime. You are dealing with 17 and 18 year olds that grew up on them. Teach them - that is your job and what they are paying for.
I have been pissed off at Harvard ever since they forced Larry Summers out for factual statements. Harvard is not an effective undergraduate educational institution. It is a social club, a very large financial conglomerate and leftist activist organization. The campus is perfectly pretty and I used to eat lunch on it when I worked next to it but it has strayed far from its original mission. The only hard part is getting in and you better fit the mold and conform.
I think the founders would not be impressed to find out that some students got expelled before they even took their first class just because someone caught the case of the vapors. It is quite possible (almost certain) that they were just kidding in their own way.
---
### Author:  [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2017, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285/35 "2017-06-07T03:09:11Z")
> [@Icarus](#):
>
> I am somewhat troubled by the recent trend toward zero tolerance applied to young people. I see this as fitting into that category. My reason is that young people up to a certain age are still learning - they will try to find where the line is. They are not fully formed, we shouldn’t expect them to be.
OK - how about instead of rescinding their admission, simply delay it for a year. They’ll still get into Harvard, but only after they take a year to sit on the sidelines and think about what they’ve done.
---
### Author:  [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2017, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285/36 "2017-06-07T03:16:38Z")
Yes, they are young and need to be taught. Because they haven’t learned it yet, losing a Harvard admission is a perfectly good way to teach them.
Otherwise the lesson would have been that there are things that you can get away with if you’re the class of person who reaches a certain level.
If they really were smart enough to be Harvard material otherwise, they’ll do just fine in life. And maybe both they and society will have been better off having had the experience of suffering consequences.
I want to live in a world where people who reach the top rank don’t get away with shit like this.
> [@Machine\_Elf](#):
>
> OK - how about instead of rescinding their admission, simply delay it for a year. They’ll still get into Harvard, but only after they take a year to sit on the sidelines and think about what they’ve done.
Why give them that chance? There are plenty of other people who were good enough to get into Harvard. Why should they have to stand in line behind these guys?
---
### Author:  [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2017, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285/37 "2017-06-07T03:19:12Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#):
>
> Well one could always decide not to be a racist, sexist, homophobic jerk.
Or, better yet, people can mind their own business and stop being holier than thou hypocrites. Imagine a world with no privacy at all. Any joke you make or comment you make is judged by the whole world. Sounds fun doesn’t it?
---
### Author:  [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2017, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285/38 "2017-06-07T03:40:37Z")
> [@Acsenray](#):
>
> Yes, they are young and need to be taught. Because they haven’t learned it yet, losing a Harvard admission is a perfectly good way to teach them.
>
> Otherwise the lesson would have been that there are things that you can get away with if you’re the class of person who reaches a certain level.
>
> If they really were smart enough to be Harvard material otherwise, they’ll do just fine in life. And maybe both they and society will have been better off having had the experience of suffering consequences.
>
> I want to live in a world where people who reach the top rank don’t get away with shit like this.
>
> Why give them that chance? There are plenty of other people who were good enough to get into Harvard. Why should they have to stand in line behind these guys?
What did they do exactly? All I have heard is they posted jokes that someone thought was offensive. Did they also blow up some mosques or something? I also didn’t hear about any black churches being burned down by Harvard applicants.
It is very damaging to rescind admission from Harvard (or any other good school) at this late date because they will not have another school to go to in the fall. The admission dates have already been closed for the other schools that accepted them.
What are the next steps here: shunning, guillotine or just simple lifetime social pariah status? Here is a complication. What if one of the people denied matriculation was a black girl that just says it was all an inside joke?
---
### Author:  [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2017, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285/39 "2017-06-07T03:52:11Z")
> [@Magiver](#):
>
> . . .we are asking that you submit a statement by tomorrow at noon to explain your contributions and actions for discussion with the Admissions Committee.”
>
> If this was a private exchange then how is Harvard able to compel the students to divulge anything?
To me it looks like Harvard was doing due diligence and giving the “students” the chance to explain themselves. Maybe there was a good reason they were on this board; maybe they were doing an investigation of the facebook chatroom for an expose’. They didn’t just summarily decide to rescind the offers.
Ultimately, they don’t owe anyone any explanation; they can except or decline anyone they choose for any reason they choose. There can be consequences for Harvard as well.If it’s a big enough deal, then the public can turn on the university and no longer offer them the prestige they enjoy now.
mc
---
### Author:  [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2017, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285/40 "2017-06-07T03:54:22Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#):
>
> OK - how about instead of rescinding their admission, simply delay it for a year. They’ll still get into Harvard, but only after they take a year to sit on the sidelines and think about what they’ve done.
Then 10 people next year get denied a place at Harvard.
Harvard is a private school. They can admit or not admit whoever they like. I thought you conservatives were in favor of freedom?
[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285.md?page=1)
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-accepted-to-harvard-for-being-smart-get-kicked-out-for-being-stupid/788285.md?page=3)