# Get me off the grid! Or, what do I need to know to get renewable power? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 4, 2004, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-me-off-the-grid-or-what-do-i-need-to-know-to-get-renewable-power/222716 "2004-01-04T23:44:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DirkGntly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DirkGntly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DirkGntly)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2004, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-me-off-the-grid-or-what-do-i-need-to-know-to-get-renewable-power/222716/1 "2004-01-04T23:44:51Z")
We’re planning on moving out to the boondocks in the next year or so. I’ve already researched rainwater collection, sanitation and storage, as there seems to be a lot of info about it. Heck, the State of Texas has an official publication on how to do it. What I can’t seem to find is a good source of information on what’s needed to get off the power grid. Actually, I don’t really want to get off the grid completely; I’m hoping to use solar and wind with deep-cycle batteries and power inverters for my primary power sources, but still remain attached to the grid for supplementary power. I’ve Googled, but can’t seem to come up with decent search queries for what I’m looking for, which is a “how-to” or somesuch that would educate me on my options. Has anyone done this, or know where I can find this info? ---
**Author:** ![kpm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c57346/32.png) [@kpm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kpm)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-me-off-the-grid-or-what-do-i-need-to-know-to-get-renewable-power/222716/2 "2004-01-05T00:03:50Z")
Check to see if Texas has a state energy office - it might be part of the dept. of commerce. That office can probably direct you to some info. As a starting point this company sells a lot of stuff to help people live on less energy: [http://www.realgoods.com/](http://www.realgoods.com/) ---
**Author:** ![DirkGntly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DirkGntly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DirkGntly)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-me-off-the-grid-or-what-do-i-need-to-know-to-get-renewable-power/222716/3 "2004-01-05T00:08:48Z")
**kpm,** Thanks for the info - I’ll look into it. As far as the weblink, I’ve found LOTS of places willing to sell me stuff, what I need is info on what I need BEFORE I go out and try and buy it… As additional info, I’m hoping to produce about 5kw… Of course, if they ever approve a depleted uranium thermopile in the US…(there was some experimentation with this back in the early-to-mid 80’s that looked promising, but I think it was only approved in Canada for remote areas…the thing was supposed to be about the size of a kitchen wastebasket and produced 5kw)… ---
**Author:** ![kpm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c57346/32.png) [@kpm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kpm)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-me-off-the-grid-or-what-do-i-need-to-know-to-get-renewable-power/222716/4 "2004-01-05T00:14:46Z")
Our local solar center has a lot of good info: [http://www.ncsc.ncsu.edu/](http://www.ncsc.ncsu.edu/) Here is the national solar energy society: [http://www.ases.org/](http://www.ases.org/) Florida has a very good solar energy center so I would see what kind of info you can get from them. ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-me-off-the-grid-or-what-do-i-need-to-know-to-get-renewable-power/222716/5 "2004-01-05T00:15:34Z")
Staying on the grid is a great idea if you are into renewable energy. In my part of the world, this is still an area in its infancy, but many of those who are doing it actually feed power INTO the grid for a fee - this usually offsets against their power bill in such a way that they still wind up paying - just not much. Is this possible in Texas? ---
**Author:** ![kpm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c57346/32.png) [@kpm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kpm)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-me-off-the-grid-or-what-do-i-need-to-know-to-get-renewable-power/222716/6 "2004-01-05T00:19:35Z")
Also, if you haven’t already done it, check out your local public library and university libraries. The NC Solar center I linked above also has info on renewable energy beyond solar. ---
**Author:** ![gcarroll](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/65b543/32.png) [@gcarroll](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gcarroll)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-me-off-the-grid-or-what-do-i-need-to-know-to-get-renewable-power/222716/7 "2004-01-05T00:28:19Z")
The power you get from the grid is almost always going to be less expensive than power you collect/generate yourself, when you take into account the expense of buying and maintaining the generation equipment (and possibly fuel.) “Fuel” because the least expensive and easiest generators are driven by internal combustion engines – these are costly in terms of fuel, but are great as backup. If you have a good source of waterpower this can be cheap in operation and only moderately costly to set up – but it’s hard to find such a spot. You might want to call the manufacturer of the products you hope to use, such as solar cells. They probably have some “example sites” that they could point you to. If they don’t you might ask them if they would like to work with you to get one. If they don’t have one and don’t particularly want one, you might want to reconsider how practical this is. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-me-off-the-grid-or-what-do-i-need-to-know-to-get-renewable-power/222716/8 "2004-01-05T01:07:04Z")
Got a 2-15m head falling water source? Here ya [go](http://www.atals.com/newtic/ekid_home.htm). Actually pretty interesting. Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![justwannano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ab992/32.png) [@justwannano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justwannano)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-me-off-the-grid-or-what-do-i-need-to-know-to-get-renewable-power/222716/9 "2004-01-05T02:12:45Z")
Try this site for lots of info on living “The country life” [http://www.countrylife.net/servlets/sfs?i=953568555281](http://www.countrylife.net/servlets/sfs?i=953568555281) They even have a off the grid forum. sometimes its a little slow getting answers but lots of good people who actually live the life. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-me-off-the-grid-or-what-do-i-need-to-know-to-get-renewable-power/222716/10 "2004-01-05T02:57:38Z")
[Interstate Renewable Energy Council](http://www.irecusa.org/index.html) > **[Home Power Magazine | Downloadable Archive | Home](https://www.homepower.com/)** > > An archive of the complete 31-year history of Home Power magazine. 188 digital back issues capture a three decade history of the renewable energy movement in the U.S. and beyond. Each issue is available for non-commercial use at no cost to registered... Searching both sites provide even more links. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-me-off-the-grid-or-what-do-i-need-to-know-to-get-renewable-power/222716/11 "2004-01-05T05:24:38Z")
Dunno if this will be much help, but about 10 years ago I received a pamphlet from the local power consortium in Wisconsin saying that there was a federal program that made it possible for residential customers to get a $20,000 solar installation free. There were a number of requirements: your house had to have a southern roof exposure, a new, big and solid enough roof (so they wouldn’t have to remove the panels to re-shingle soon) and a few other items I forget. And you could sell the excess power back to the company. Sounded good; I have a broad southern roof exposure, and had planned to investigate further when I next put a new roof on. But when I asked how long the program had been available in my state and how many installations had been made so far, they said, “Five years, and two installations.” So maybe the offer was just for show – to show that the power company was doing its part for ecology, but had no intention of a major push. I hope this isn’t your experience. ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-me-off-the-grid-or-what-do-i-need-to-know-to-get-renewable-power/222716/12 "2004-01-05T20:28:51Z")
That [realgoods.com](http://realgoods.com) sit actually DOES have good info., not just sales pitches. Check out their link: [http://www.solareco.com/service/common.cfm](http://www.solareco.com/service/common.cfm) > [@](#): > > … **How much will it cost to power my home?** > This is a complicated question, because power usage varies so greatly in different homes. If a household is conservation minded, an energy efficient three bedroom home could typically be powered by a \*\*$10,000 - $20,000 \*\*renewable energy system. This is based on very generic terms. To find out the cost for your home it is best to contact a renewable energy technician. > > … > > **What is the most economical way to reduce the cost of my electric bill?** > The most economic way to reduce your energy bill is by converting to energy efficient appliances and being conscious of how you consume electricity. Another good way to reduce the cost of your electric bill is to change your heat producing appliances to gas. Items such as water heaters, cooking stoves and clothes dryers are all much more economical if run on gas. Even small changes can make big differences; a single 100-watt bulb replaced with a 25-watt screw-in compact fluorescent can save you over $75 on your power bill over the life of the bulb. If you are off the grid, it can save you up to $400 in photovoltaics. That is a lot of savings for a little bit of change! > > **When does solar power make economic sense compared to a line extension?** > Line extensions charge approximately $10-$20 per foot on average. Usually \*\*anything over a mile \*\* can be justified by turning to renewable energy. So I guess the real questions are (a) why do you want to get off the grid and (b) how much are you willing to pay for it? If you’re in the situation where it would be tremendously expensive to run a power line in (i.e., a mile or more from the nearest line), then go with renewable energy. If it’s just the cool/paranoid factor of not being beholden to power outages or the whim of The Man (and believe me, I do understand this desire), then you need to seriously think about two things: (1) how much you’re willing to pay (2) how much you’re willing to do without. The smartest, cheapest way to get off-grid is to build a small, well-insulated, well-sited, passive-solar home that has incredibly small power demands (possibly with most of your appliances, lights, etc., running on 12-48V DC rather than 120V AC), and then adopting a lifestyle whereby you use very little power (i.e., turn on few lights, use a tiny TV/radio, not a monster home entertainment room, no A/C, gas range, possibly a propane refrigerator, line-dry your clothes, wood stove for supplemental heat, wear sweaters instead of turning on the heat, quick 5-minutes-or-less showers, etc.). If you really want a 5 kW system, expect to pay big, big bucks. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-me-off-the-grid-or-what-do-i-need-to-know-to-get-renewable-power/222716/13 "2004-01-05T22:40:06Z")
Some friends of mine, who had to move to Bakersfield from New Mexico, built one of [these](http://www.eere.energy.gov/EE/strawhouse/house-of-straw.html) (in NM). They also had solar water heating and wind power. They had two elec, systems in the house, 12vdc (windmill, mostly lighting) and 120vac (grid). They loved it. This was quite a long time ago, and they got assistance from the govt. They also had a pellet stove which they used for heating and for cooking. These people _were_ kinda wierd, though. Ex-hippies and all. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-me-off-the-grid-or-what-do-i-need-to-know-to-get-renewable-power/222716/14 "2004-01-05T23:49:22Z")
I would suggest staying on the grid and use the grid as a giant battery, saving you the headache and expense of maintaining a huge bank of batteries, plus if you are totally off the grid, I think you would want a backup generator, which makes you again dependant on ‘The Man’ to deliver you fuel. Solar and wind are not dependable but seem to be complementry. May I suggest, if available, to get some land with a small stream, nothing too big that you would be accused of interfering w/ a navitable waterway and use water power to turn a generator. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-me-off-the-grid-or-what-do-i-need-to-know-to-get-renewable-power/222716/15 "2004-01-06T00:24:56Z")
Why do you want to get off the grid? Generating your own power will almost always cost _more_ than the price of grid power. Especially if you’re using PV arrays. ---
**Author:** ![bbeaty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c0e974/32.png) [@bbeaty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bbeaty)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-me-off-the-grid-or-what-do-i-need-to-know-to-get-renewable-power/222716/16 "2004-01-06T00:51:21Z")
Another good off-the-gridder forum is at [otherpower.com](http://www.fieldlines.com/section/homebrew) Yes, as others have noted, alt-energy is still expensive, so it’s mostly for us fanatical hobbyists and other ‘early adopter’ types. It’s hard to have it pay for itself unless you’re an electronics/machinist type who can build the whole system from junk and surplus parts ---
**Author:** ![Ostrya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/35a633/32.png) [@Ostrya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ostrya)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-me-off-the-grid-or-what-do-i-need-to-know-to-get-renewable-power/222716/17 "2004-01-06T01:03:16Z")
I was ‘gung ho’ to set up an energy efficient home several years ago, bought several books through ‘real goods’ and began to study. I learned that there was greater expense involved than imagined. AC current isn’t as efficient as DC, so to go off the grid, you’ll need a new fridge. Stove too, if it’s electric. Washer and dryer? Same thing. Not only will you have the initial costs, you’ll have to be extremely miserly with power usage. TV’s, Stereos, hairdryers, blenders, coffee makers, etc You won’t be using ‘conventional’ appliances like that anymore. You’ll need appliances specially manufactured to run on DC. I saw suggestion that you should stay on the grid and mantain battery banks. Take a look at the batteries in ‘real goods’ and you’ll see they’re uber expensive. Also, the manufacturer strongly recommends not discharging the battery(ies) down below 50% capacity - this dramatically reduces battery life. It’s recommended that you maintain 70%+ to get maximum life of the cells. Another thing you should know about battery banks before considering is that it takes at least 10% or so, additional power to charge batteries over what the storage capacity is. You lose at least 10% to charge them. ---
**Author:** ![netscape\_6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8c91f0/32.png) [@netscape\_6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/netscape_6)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-me-off-the-grid-or-what-do-i-need-to-know-to-get-renewable-power/222716/18 "2004-01-06T13:56:20Z")
A good inverter can solve the problem of needing new dc stuff. If your up to it [otherpower.com has some nice instructions on do it your self wind turbines](http://www.otherpower.com/trips1.html). I plan on building some next spring.