# Get off the road, Grandpa! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 20, 2000, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-off-the-road-grandpa/46588 "2000-12-20T21:53:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![TBone2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@TBone2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBone2)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2000, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-off-the-road-grandpa/46588/41 "2000-12-21T21:43:52Z")
my first words on this subject. In my opinion, older people should be required to re-test for driver’s licenses periodically, at least every two years. My background is highway construction, for the past twenty years. (Yeah, I’m one of those bastards who set out the orange barrels and cones for you to weave around…) I’ve moved into supervision now, but the earlier years of my career involved a lot of flagging, that is, directing traffic into, around and through construction zones. I have a lot of friends and associates in the industry who have been there too. We know who can drive and who can’t. Our lives hang in the balance, and we learn to anticipate the bad ones. The WORST, the absolute worst drivers are older women. Period. I have been near death out on the job several times in my career, and EACH and EVERY TIME, it has been on account of an older woman who was completely incapable of dealing with the circumstances (I will NEVER forget that ol’ gal who tried to ‘mow me down’ at a steady 15 mph – I had to clear the entire construction zone so she could wander to her destination). Second worst, but not nearly so bad, are older men. A distant third would be youngsters. Who is the ideal motorist, from my point of view? Probably a young to middle-aged male. This group gets a bad rap from the insurance companies – mainly because of the speeding tickets they tend to collect – but I’ll put my money (and my life) on the line in front of one of them before I’ll even attempt to direct a blue-haired woman or a fancy-cap-wearing elderly gent. Call me what you will. I know what I’m talking about. I learned it the hard way, and that’s why I’m still suckin’ air. ---
**Author:** ![Cannon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/919ad9/32.png) [@Cannon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cannon)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2000, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-off-the-road-grandpa/46588/42 "2000-12-21T21:49:36Z")
Okay, I’m defensive. But, holy smokes, It get’s too much when people say “Get off the road, Grandpa.” If you can’t see something wrong with that thinking, I don’t know what else to say. In fact, I’m flabbergasted, and don’t know what to say next. I guess my best course is to say nothing at all. Which is what I should have done in the beginning. Still, it boggles the mind. ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2000, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-off-the-road-grandpa/46588/43 "2000-12-21T22:11:32Z")
I think it’s reasonable to test all drivers in a driving test on a regular basis, and perhaps older people more frequently. However, a test can only address ability–not behavior. A person’s driving habits may be much better (or worse!) in a driving test than they would be otherwise. So the test is not effective at all in removing speeders and tailgaiters. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2000, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-off-the-road-grandpa/46588/44 "2000-12-21T22:17:28Z")
I’ve always been a little confused by the “privilege” statement on probably all drivers license apps. These are from m-w; Privilege: > [@](#): > > : a right or immunity granted as a peculiar benefit, advantage, or favor : and Right: > [@](#): > > : something to which one has a just claim: as a : the power or privilege to which one is justly entitled: Now I’m totally 😕 What I do know is that no one has the power to arbitrarily deny me a drivers license. Because I have a right to one, and haven’t had that right revoked through due process. I think that the bones of this debate is that some old people annoy some young people, by driving safely. I drive quite a bit myself, and rarely encounter cars going way below the limit. Of course I do live on California, which might be different than other places. Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2000, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-off-the-road-grandpa/46588/45 "2000-12-21T22:54:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cannon \* > Okay, I’m defensive. > > But, holy smokes, It get’s too much when people say “Get > off the road, Grandpa.” > > If you can’t see something wrong with that thinking, I don’t know what else to say. > > In fact, I’m flabbergasted, and don’t know what to say next. > > I guess my best course is to say nothing at all. Which is what I should have done in the beginning. > > Still, it boggles the mind. I understand where you’re coming from, Cannon; I recently had a slight tiff with another poster for referring to my home state as “cracker” in another thread title. But I don’t think the thread title here was indicative of the OP’s content, and several posters (as noted above) have gone out of their way to explain they’re in favor of mandatory testing for ALL drivers, not just older drivers. Becoming defensive in the thread, where it’s obvious no one is mandating that older drivers lose their license, will get you flamed … gently. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2000, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-off-the-road-grandpa/46588/46 "2000-12-21T23:08:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by aynrandlover \* > \*\*[sub]chanting in background[/sub] > Pit! Pit! Pit! Pit! Pit! Pit! Pit! > [sub]runs[/sub] \*\* AMEN…hey, we agree! Anyhoo, Cannon, I don’t know how long you’ve been here, but if you’re going to call people names, it’s not allowed here. Take it to the Pit. And let me just say, if your driving skills are on a par with your apparent maturity levels, then you’d do well to keep off the road. :rolleyes: (for the record, I’m 22-and I don’t have a license.) ---
**Author:** ![Cannon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/919ad9/32.png) [@Cannon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cannon)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2000, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-off-the-road-grandpa/46588/47 "2000-12-22T00:14:15Z")
Guanastia Please don’t instruct me on how I should behave. I am insulted by by this OP. If this is pit worthy, I’m ready. If you act like a putz, I will call you a putz, no matter what forum we’re in. See you there. I’ll be waiting. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2000, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-off-the-road-grandpa/46588/48 "2000-12-22T00:41:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cannon \* > \*\*Guanastia > > Please don’t instruct me on how I should behave. > > I am insulted by by this OP. > > If this is pit worthy, I’m ready. > > If you act like a putz, I will call you a putz, no matter what forum we’re in. > See you there. I’ll be waiting. \*\* Or say…here’s a thought, how about acting in such a way to keep this OUT of the pit? If you feel insulted by the OP, then offer up a rational line of thinking in opposition…Bricker (and others) have not attacked you personally…they have raised a debatable point…FWIW, I don’t have a real strong opinion at this point on the OP…seeing your response is starting to change that :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2000, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-off-the-road-grandpa/46588/49 "2000-12-22T01:01:54Z")
**beagledave**. You don’t think the title and text of the OP is just a little bit, well, unfriendly? Even **Bricker** alludes to the possibility that it could be “inflammatory”. Re-read it, please. I did, and I can how someone who’s a gradpa might take some offense. I don’t. but I simply consider the source. **Cannon** , as a fellow grandpa, I think you should chill a little. 😉 Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2000, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-off-the-road-grandpa/46588/50 "2000-12-22T01:31:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mangeorge \* > \*\* **beagledave**. You don’t think the title and text of the OP is just a little bit, well, unfriendly? Even **Bricker** alludes to the possibility that it could be “inflammatory”. > Re-read it, please. I did, and I can how someone who’s a gradpa might take some offense. I don’t. but I simply consider the source. > **Cannon** , as a fellow grandpa, I think you should chill a little. 😉 > Peace, > mangeorge > \*\* Yes I can see how Cannon could take offense at the ideas that Bricker posted, even the language of the subject line …the question becomes what to do about it then… .Either point out the possible fallacies of the OP, and even object to the inflammatory nature of the language used in the subject line…or make direct insults about some of the posters. I think the first option is a better one. ---
**Author:** ![Cannon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/919ad9/32.png) [@Cannon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cannon)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2000, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-off-the-road-grandpa/46588/51 "2000-12-22T02:52:01Z")
Mangeorge, Your advice is well recieved. I admit that I’m a bit taken aback by the OP. It seems very unfair to me, and I’m sure people of my age would agree. Especially in light of the fact that the majoritoty of accidednts are caused by young drivers. Mr. beagledave can make whatever he wants out of this post,but honesty and integrity will always come through. That’s my opinion and I’ll always state that. Don’t tell me to chill. I don’t even know what that means. ---
**Author:** ![Monocracy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monocracy/32/4493_2.png) [@Monocracy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monocracy)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2000, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-off-the-road-grandpa/46588/52 "2000-12-22T03:39:54Z")
My points: 1. Bad drivers come in two basic forms: those who CANNOT drive safely (older people [and people who fail their driving test in the first place] fall more into this category), and those who CHOOSE NOT TO drive safely (younger people fall more into this category [yet some people will remain in this category for their entire life]). 2. The object of a driving test is to pass the test, the object of driving is to get from one place to another … therefore, a driving test cannot measure all bad drivers, only the ones that cannot drive safely. 3. Retesting for drivers of ALL ages is not cost effective. It will only catch those people who have lost the ability to drive safely (i.e. lower sensory perception, memory loss, loss of coordination, etc.), which hardly ever occurs with younger drivers. 4. Retesting for older drivers MIGHT NOT be cost effective. I’d guess that most bad drivers fall into the “choose not to drive safely” category. The media seem to pounce on every accident which is caused by an older, senile driver, therefore the “granpa drivers” problem may not be as big as it appears. 5. In ten years, you may possibly see Cannon standing in line at a supermarket, mumbling phrases such as “these kids today…”, “when i was young…”, and “…no respect”. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2000, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-off-the-road-grandpa/46588/53 "2000-12-22T04:06:51Z")
Cannon-my point is, name calling, no matter how mild, is NOT ALLOWED. _sigh_ And if you drive like MY grandfather, well, then god help us all. ---
**Author:** ![super\_head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@super\_head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/super_head)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2000, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-off-the-road-grandpa/46588/54 "2000-12-22T05:02:38Z")
Just for fun, I ran some of the numbers from [http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/ncsa/AgeSex.html](http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/ncsa/AgeSex.html) to see how the following age groups would stack up: (A) Drivers aged 16-19 (B) Drivers aged 20-64 © Drivers aged 65-85+ And the envelope please…here are the results, done very quickly in Excel, so feel free to disagree. They are presented for public consumption only. No wagering or betting please. Total # of Licensed Drivers (A) 9,233,000 (B) 144,758,000 © 25,547,000 Total # of Drivers in Accidents per group (A) 1,612,000 (B) 9,624,000 © 939,000 Percentage of drivers in accidents per group (A) 17.46% (B) 6.65% © 3.68% So, at this point, it does look like the accident rate is higher for young people (especially the much younger). Now, if we look at the average miles driven per driver in a group… (A) 9,008 (B) 12,696 © 6,950 We can estimate the number of drivers in accidents per mile driven… (A) .0000194 (B) .00000524 © .00000529 And now it seems that those over the age of 65 are involved more often in accidents per mile they drive, even if only slightly. For drivers 70 and over, the number of drivers in accidents per mile driven is .00000618. And for drivers over the age of 80, it comes out to .00000823. Do with it what you will. This has been a PSA. It’s late I could have seriously screwed up some calculations - if so my utmost apologies. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2000, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-off-the-road-grandpa/46588/55 "2000-12-22T05:32:43Z")
Hey, **Cannon** , looks like we made group B. Now we need to change the name of this to; Get off the road, Great Grampa. Still rude. Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2000, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-off-the-road-grandpa/46588/56 "2000-12-22T10:15:54Z")
**Cannon** : > [@](#): > > It seems very unfair to me, and I’m sure people of my age would agree. Especially in light of the fact that the majoritoty of accidednts are caused by young drivers. Young drivers have high accident rates - which is why many states have graduated license programs. However, from **super\_head** ’s [link](http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/ncsa/AgeSex.html), we see that when you look at accidents per mile traveled, the risk of being involved in an accident “increases for drivers 65 years and older, with drivers 85 and older having a rate 2.5 times as high as the average driver”, and the rate of involvement in fatal accidents “[f]or drivers over 75 … climbs steeply and reaches a value of over 10 [per hundred million driver-miles] for drivers in the 85 and over group.” An 80-year-old and an 18-year-old are about equally likely to be involved in a fatal accident for every mile they travel. Where are the graduated licenses for elderly drivers? ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2000, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-off-the-road-grandpa/46588/57 "2000-12-22T10:20:29Z")
And speaking of graduated licenses, **blessedwolf** suggested raising the driving age to 18. I disagree… the problem with 16-year-old drivers is that they’re new to driving, not that they’re inherently less safe than 18-year-old drivers. If you raise the driving age, you’ll just see the 18-year-old drivers becoming just as dangerous as the 16-year-olds are now. ---
**Author:** ![Cannon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/919ad9/32.png) [@Cannon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cannon)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2000, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-off-the-road-grandpa/46588/58 "2000-12-22T12:15:05Z")
I’m still rude. I think I’m getting the hang of this now. You can say moronic and offensive things here, as long as you’re polite. I’ll keep that in mind the next time I see a stupid post. Thanks for your guidance. I’m just an old fart, but I’m willing to learn. ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2000, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-off-the-road-grandpa/46588/59 "2000-12-22T13:02:33Z")
[Moderator Hat: ON] Then you’d better learn fast, Cannon. You’ve gone over the line several times in this thread. It’s time for you to settle down. Now. * * * David B, SDMB Great Debates Moderator [Moderator Hat: OFF] ---
**Author:** ![BunnyGirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@BunnyGirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BunnyGirl)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2000, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-off-the-road-grandpa/46588/60 "2000-12-22T13:21:17Z")
Thank you, David! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-off-the-road-grandpa/46588.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-off-the-road-grandpa/46588.md?page=4)