Of course, no response from Rysdad. Shut up assbag. You’re less than worthy of our time. Although, on the upside, there are many here that are in complete agreement, for once. I guess there really is good to be found in encountering evil.
Excellent comment. We’ve spent so much time talking about what changes will take place to the infrastructure that this is the first time I’ve seen it noted that the entire character of the people might change because of this, and New Orleans along with it.
So, you’re saying that all of the land along the Mississippi is spoken for? Wanna bet? I’ll lay whatever odd you want that there is somewhere along that river that is either government owned or sparsely populated–and would be suitable for building the structures I proposed.
You simply flat out wrong here for reasons I just mentioned.
You do understand that much of NO is now uninhabitable, and will remain so, for years, maybe decades, to come? What’s left of NO will remain–probably the French Quarter and the Hotel district. The bulk of it is gone, pal. Never to return. You can’t rebuild on toxic land.
The structures and infrastructure that remains will continue to serve the outlying areas to the degree it can. It is indicputable, though, that those demands will change since there will not be half a million people placing a demand on those systems. Any inductry that served NO based on the demand of a large populace is history. Period. Those people won’t be there.
It doesn’t require 700,00+ thousand people to operate the refinery and shipping inductries. It probably doesn’t require 1% of that. If you want to say that it requires one person to supply ancillary services for each person employed by those inductries, then you only come up with 14,000. Even if it takes 5 people to support that worker that only comes out to 42,000. But feel free to use whatever numbers you wish. In no event will you come up with the justification for replacing the entire populace.
Now, here’s one huge red herring. The Corps of Engineers does this with their existing staff. The Mississippi will still flow, the channel will be maintained, and it doesn’t need to be changed.
Highest use? What the fuck is that? Anyway…
There is.
NO itself was built out of a swamp. Isn’t it possible to do something similar with today’s technology 300 years after it was originally done in NO?
There is now.
There would or will be.
So what you’e saying is that all usuable land is already being used. I can’t believe you said that. That’s so incredibly ignorant. I call on you to retract that immediately.
For the pitiable task of trying to enlighten you, I’ll offer this: Let’s say there is a small, agricultural community along the river. Would that not be a place to start? People living there would receive a nice sum of imminent domain buy out money, and the process of city building would begin, starting with the much needed refinery/shipping facilities. Everything else naturally follows.
What!? Thousands of miles!? Where in God’s name did you come up with that figure?
You were wrong on this before, and you’re wrong again. The Corps doesn’t need an entire city to maintain navigability. The actual numbers of the C of A are surprisingly small considering the vast amount of work they do. Unless you’re saying that the entire populace of NO were members of the Corps.
Not like there was before. Much smaller.
Whoever said they didn’t. Irrelevant.
Ok, you’e saying “destroyed and unsalvageable.” UNSALVAGEABLE. But yet you’re saying, "Let’s put another city right exactly where the first city was that was made unsalvageable. Do you see the idiocy in that?
Occasionally fucked up. Not particularly dangerous.
Have you been listening to anything that’s been said about the actual location of the city itself? That it’s below sea level and sinking. That the protection its afforded by levees is inadequate? That it was a disaster just waiting to happen.
Not particularly dangerous? It was inherently dangerous, and it remain so. Even more so, because now, it’s toxic.
:::shaking head::: Lunacy. The man is mad. He denies the existence of the Rocky Mountains.
Sea level swamp land?
Now he has water draining uphill.
The following are facts: The FQ and LQ are still in NO. All of NO is below sea level as well as lower than the lake of the river. The ground below NO is now, and was before the storm, saturated.
But he still says water will drain uphill. Scylla, that’s just plain dumb. Even for you.
The levees, yes. The “canals”, or channels, no, for reasons stated earlier.
You tried this argument before. It failed then. It fails now. God Bless the Corps of Engineers.
I’m not going to go over it again. If you’re read up to this point you’ll see that this entire paragraph has already been adequately disputed.
Sentimentality aside, at some point you’re going to have to admit that it ain’t coming back like it was before. I’ve always allowed that there will have to be some people there in order to maintain what’s necessary, but a large portion of it is gone. Forever. And it ain’t coming back.
Bolding mine. Enjoy hyperbole much?
How many 20 degree grades have you ever seen? I’ll bet NONE. And unless you plan on a roller coaster rather than a road, you’ll have to extend those run out and run ups just exactly as I’ve said. But you’re too stupid to understand that, so I won’t bother with this one any further.
Speaking of grades, you fail. Again.
My little bitch, you’re grasping at straws while building your strawmen. You’ve been thoroughly bitch slapped so often that you’re beginning to enjoy it too much. I’ll now allow you to crawl back into your hutch. Stay there until I call you.
I think the cold has gotten to his brain.
New Orleans is going to be rebuilt. It won’t be the same as it was, but it is going to be rebuilt.
There are simply too many political impediments to it being abandoned. Spin all the fantasies you want about moving it, abandoning it, blah blah blah. No politician is going to say “We’re not spending public money on rebuilding this city in the same location,” so you can give up the argument right now.
Period.
The Blues will experience a resurgence.
Will we see a new form of the Blues emerge from this horror?
I had been on the verge of claiming that we’ve lost jazz. The environment that created it, ragtime in the bordellos of Storyville, the nightly parties of the slaves in Congo Square, the clubs and hole-in-the-wall restaurants in the Quarter, most of the talented black musicians in the South gathering there to create music and feed off each other, all that is gone. But maybe it already was - jazz has evolved and spread and taken root elsewhere, and can survive the loss of its home and its original source of creativity. It won’t be the same again, but nothing ever is. It had kept changing anyway even before, and that’s a good thing. Can the returned refugees living in slapped-together prefab housing on bulldozed and filled land where their old neighborhoods used to be recreate the environment?
The blues, you ask? That’s evolved too, more into musical style than lyrical content. I’d expect more songs about loss and sorrow, sure, but not fundamentally different ones.
Sam, thanks for the compliment.
Quick point or two: A *levee * is a berm that holds water back. A *levy * is a form of taxation, and yes, those can be more impregnable than levees.
You can build a shallow ramp up any slope you like if you angle it to the side instead of going straight up - picture a mountain switchback with or without the turns.
I’m sure you’re right, be it foolish or no, but…
It sure as heck would be nice if they do a bit of triage, at least. “This we’ll restore, this we’ll rebuild, this we’ll plow under and elevate, this we’ll leave to Lake Pontchartrain…” After that, fix the damn levee system so it A) Doesn’t cause the rest of the Delta to sink or wash away, and B) It can handle at least a catagory 4 hurricane.
The West Virginia Department of Transportation published this document (warning: PDF) that gives specs for various roadways. The maximum allowable grade for local mountainous roads is 17%, but if you’ve ever been on some of those roads you know they can go on for miles at grades of >10%. In NOLA we’re talking about a few hundred feet at an extreme grade. Also, in WV you do have the concern about the roadways remaining usable when there’s snow, not a driving concern in Louisiana.
That’s interesting. I wouldn’t’ve guessed that that degree of grade would be allowed.
Anyway, how long would a roadway need to be if the height at one end was 60 feet and the grade was 17%? Or 10%? Remember, you can’t have a sharp angle where the slope meets the flat land.
Also, how many switchbacks do you figure would be necessary to traverse a hill that is approximately 630 feet wide and 60 feet tall without exceeding a 17% grade? Remember, you have to allow turnaround space for a tractor-trailer rig.
At first glance, it seems like the 17% grade on a straight road would be the liklier alternative, but I’m too tired to try and do the math. Anyone else care to try?
How much different? We might just agree here.
Political impediments, yeah, I’ll grant you that. They’re probably what will salvage the tourist areas of the city.
But I disagree that the rest of the city will be completely rebuilt for many, many reasons.
Period. Exclamation point.
What a fucking moron. The bastard will probably switch parties and become a Democrat any day now.
Huh? He stated what you’ve spent this entire thread arguing.
Whooooooooosh.
That’s all right, I needed to wash my hair anyways.
I’m wondering how big of a new asshole they’ll tear him for even thinking something as loathesome as that.
Wow. Hastert said something intelligent! I can’t believe I agree with him on something. :eek:
First off, I havn’t read this whole thread, so my apologies if I’m repeating.
Second, when we talk about global warming is is since 1880 when records started being kept, not from when the Earth was a molten ball. A little comman sense while reading is important.
Third, is the Earth getting warmer? Statistically it is, the question is why and how long will it go on. Geological records have shown that the atmosphere has warmed and cooled several time through history. So is this a natural trend or man made?
Of course, they’re basically just a bunch of hippy tree-huggers so why listen to them?