# Get over our not getting over it, OK? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 27, 2001, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-over-our-not-getting-over-it-ok/78384 "2001-08-27T20:04:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-over-our-not-getting-over-it-ok/78384/61 "2001-08-28T12:48:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chas.E \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Lemur866 \* > > \*\*And ChasE? Perhaps you should read the US Constitution and what it says about treason, and then decide whether Bush’s actions fall under that definition. If we use your definition then YOU are treasonous since you are disloyal to the president. \*\* > > Go read a history book, you are woefully ignorant of political history. What I said was sedition. The Sedition Act of 1798 makes it legal. \*\* First of all, you’re a liar. None of your previous posts in this thread contained the word “sedition”; they all said “treason,” It isn’t as if we can’t go back and read them, dummy. Second, talk about woefully ignorant. The Sedition Act of 1798 contained its own expiration date, dummy: “SEC. 4. And be it further enacted, That this act shall continue and be in force until the third day of March, one thousand eight hundred and one, and no longer: Provided, that the expiration of the act shall not prevent or defeat a prosecution and punishment of any offence against the law, during the time it shall be in force.” Furthermore, the provided punishment for acts of sedition was a fine of $5,000 and six months to five years in jail. The provided punishment for suborning sedition was a fine of $2,000 and up to two years in jail. Before you chide others for being ignorant, you should make a cursory attempt to know what the fuck you’re talking about. > [@](#): > > \*\*Treason in the Constitution is defined (in part) as “adhering to [the US’s] enemies, giving them aid and comfort.” While the US is founded on the principle of the legal right to overthrow an oppressive government, anyone who overthrows a legal election is not only giving aid to the enemies of the USA, he IS an enemy of the USA. \*\* Which legal election was “overthrown,” exactly? There was no winner until the Florida electoral vote total was awarded, so please explain which legitimately seated President-elect was unseated through the election results. Also, please explain specifically which enemies were aided, and in what actions they were aided, by the results of this election. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-over-our-not-getting-over-it-ok/78384/62 "2001-08-28T12:49:32Z")
Ignore the first half of the previous post–I misread what Chas E. was saying. The second half stands, though, regarding “overthrowing a legal election.” ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-over-our-not-getting-over-it-ok/78384/63 "2001-08-28T13:02:40Z")
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again – if Gore had just won his HOME STATE, all this discussion would be moot. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-over-our-not-getting-over-it-ok/78384/64 "2001-08-28T13:07:29Z")
So…anyone want to comment on what happened in St. Louis that night? (d&r) ---
**Author:** ![Chas.E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@Chas.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chas.E)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-over-our-not-getting-over-it-ok/78384/65 "2001-08-28T13:24:20Z")
OK, i’ll take on the last half. You really should read Bugliosi and Dershowitz’s books, they’re currently #25 and #26 on the NYTimes Bestseller lists, they’ve been there since they were released, and they go into the details of this. But in short: The legally obtained electoral results of the OTHER STATES were overturned by the illegal actions in Florida. If an election hinges on one state, and that state’s elections are subverted, then the whole election is subverted. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-over-our-not-getting-over-it-ok/78384/66 "2001-08-28T13:25:53Z")
gobear: I have enver used a bong, for the record. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-over-our-not-getting-over-it-ok/78384/67 "2001-08-28T13:41:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chas.E \* > The legally obtained electoral results of the OTHER STATES were overturned by the illegal actions in Florida. If an election hinges on one state, and that state’s elections are subverted, then the whole election is subverted. Nope. Gore wins his home state, he’s in the White House right now. It’s that simple. Wouldn’t have mattered if the Republicans had every Democrat in Florida shot before they could vote. ---
**Author:** ![Chance\_the\_Gardener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@Chance\_the\_Gardener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chance_the_Gardener)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-over-our-not-getting-over-it-ok/78384/68 "2001-08-28T14:06:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sauron \* > \*\*I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again – if Gore had just won his HOME STATE, all this discussion would be moot. \*\* Um… if Gore had taken _New Hampshire_ he’d be president right now. What’s the relevence here? ---
**Author:** ![Chas.E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@Chas.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chas.E)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-over-our-not-getting-over-it-ok/78384/69 "2001-08-28T14:13:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sauron \* > \*\*Nope. Gore wins his home state, he’s in the White House right now. It’s that simple. Wouldn’t have mattered if the Republicans had every Democrat in Florida shot before they could vote. \*\* That’s a red herring and you know it. The fact is, he didn’t win TN and the election came down to FL. So the GOP focused on subverting the entire election through subverting FL. When SCOTUS used the bogus interpretation of equal protection to stop the recounts, every voter outside of florida lost their equal protection. How ironic. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-over-our-not-getting-over-it-ok/78384/70 "2001-08-28T14:13:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chance the Gardener \* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Sauron \*I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again – if Gore had just won his HOME STATE, all this discussion would be moot. > > Um… if Gore had taken _New Hampshire_ he’d be president right now. What’s the relevence here? Relevance? You’ve gotta be kidding. All Gore has to do is win his home state, and he’s got the election. (Granted, that’s easy to see in hindsight, but still …) It shouldn’t be that hard. He won it to become a Senator. Why can’t he win it to become President? But see, that opens up questions about how he ran his campaign, which aren’t fun for those who claim he was robbed. It’s more fun to whine about the way the election went down than to say that the candidate they support didn’t run his campaign effectively. If I were to run for city council, say, and I lost by a couple of votes, then discovered later that everybody on my street didn’t vote for me, I’d be mad at myself. They’re my neighbors; I should’ve made sure they were for me before I did anything else. ---
**Author:** ![Chance\_the\_Gardener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@Chance\_the\_Gardener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chance_the_Gardener)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-over-our-not-getting-over-it-ok/78384/71 "2001-08-28T14:45:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sauron \* > > All Gore has to do is win his home state, and he’s got the election. (Granted, that’s easy to see in hindsight, but still …) It shouldn’t be that hard. He won it to become a Senator. Why can’t he win it to become President? > > But see, that opens up questions about how he ran his campaign, which aren’t fun for those who claim he was robbed. It’s more fun to whine about the way the election went down than to say that the candidate they support didn’t run his campaign effectively. Gore ran a crummy campaign. What’s so hard to admit? And yes, while it’s unusual for a candidate—whether they win or lose—to lose his home state in a presidential election, it’s certainly not crucial. Again: Gore ran a crummy campaign. Gore’s campaign didn’t dump millions into increasingly Republican Tennessee, which the Republicans did do. Bush took 51% of the popular vote in Tennessee, while Gore took 47%. No one thinks that it’s unfair that the Tennessee votes went to Bush. Had Bush clearly won Florida, I’d accept it. But Florida is the issue here, not Tennessee. As **Chas.E** pointed out, that’s a red herring. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-over-our-not-getting-over-it-ok/78384/72 "2001-08-28T15:14:27Z")
Bumper sticker: * * * ``` Al Gore 2004 ``` ## Reelect the President ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-over-our-not-getting-over-it-ok/78384/73 "2001-08-28T15:20:19Z")
> [@](#): > > I’ll tell you what (as long as we’re making deals): You find a single court who will rule that the SCOTUS decision was “illegal”, and I’ll crown you Grand Czar Of Justice for the United States. > > Just one court. A single one. Can’t be that hard, can it? > > (Betcha buy into the whole “illegal laws” thing, too, don’tcha?) Well, i think Plessy vs. Ferguson in 1896 is a good example that the surpreme court (or SCOTUS) is not always right. (And i’d call that an “illegal law,” so nyah nyah nyah!) ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-over-our-not-getting-over-it-ok/78384/74 "2001-08-28T15:29:36Z")
**Moderator’s Notes:** > [@](#): > > You’re treading on very thin ice spoofe, Uncle Beer will be displeased. Am I gonna hafta separate the two of you again, **again**? Knock it off. Both of you. Immediately. Am I clear? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-over-our-not-getting-over-it-ok/78384/75 "2001-08-28T15:30:34Z")
Some random thoughts: 1. I’m not a George Bush supporter. 2. There were irregularities in the Florida election that, had they not existed, would in all likelihood, have resulted in Gore winning the state. 3. I’m probably not going to vote for Bush in 2004 and help see that he gets defeated. 4. Whining about 2 doesn’t help accomplish 3. I understand the people who are frustrated about Bush in the White House, but continuing to bring it up isn’t going to work as a campaign strategy. It just makes the people complaining sound like sore losers. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-over-our-not-getting-over-it-ok/78384/76 "2001-08-28T15:40:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chance the Gardener \* > > Had Bush clearly won Florida, I’d accept it. But Florida is the issue here, not Tennessee. As **Chas.E** pointed out, that’s a red herring. Florida wouldn’t BE the issue if Gore had won Tennessee. It would be a minor footnote, a “Geez wasn’t that a major screwup” on page nine of the metro section of the paper. But because Gore’s campaign didn’t take care of his home state first, it has become this rallying cry for Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![Arken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@Arken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arken)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-over-our-not-getting-over-it-ok/78384/77 "2001-08-28T15:58:03Z")
Screw it, I’m moving to Antarctica. ---
**Author:** ![Chance\_the\_Gardener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@Chance\_the\_Gardener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chance_the_Gardener)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-over-our-not-getting-over-it-ok/78384/78 "2001-08-28T16:11:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sauron \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Chance the Gardener \* > > > > Had Bush clearly won Florida, I’d accept it. But Florida is the issue here, not Tennessee. As **Chas.E** pointed out, that’s a red herring. > > Florida wouldn’t BE the issue if Gore had won Tennessee. It would be a minor footnote, a “Geez wasn’t that a major screwup” on page nine of the metro section of the paper. But because Gore’s campaign didn’t take care of his home state first, it has become this rallying cry for Democrats. \*\* No, no, no, no, no! The question is not about whether Gore ran his campaign well, but about the problems inherent in our election system. It’s about how the Supreme Court appointed Bush president while the results of the Florida election were still sketchy. It’s about the conflict of interest concerning major decision makers—specifically Katherine Harris and Jeb Bush. Had Gore run a better campaign, this never would have happened. Yes. But if it didn’t happen in 2000, what would stop it from happening in 2004? 2008? There’s a problem here, and it’s a lot bigger than a poorly-run campaign. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-over-our-not-getting-over-it-ok/78384/79 "2001-08-28T16:30:30Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by Chance the Gardener \* \*\* > [@](#): > > No, no, no, no, no! The question is not about whether Gore ran his campaign well, but about the problems inherent in our election system. It’s about how the Supreme Court appointed Bush president while the results of the Florida election were still sketchy. It’s about the conflict of interest concerning major decision makers—specifically Katherine Harris and Jeb Bush.\*\* In all honesty, my opinion of the election was that it was Gore’s race to lose. If he couldn’t manage to do better than a tie depending on the proclivities of some pregnant and barefoot chads, he didn’t deserve to win. I mean, for Christ’s sake, his opponent was George W. Bush, not Lincoln. And regarding Jeb and Kathy, what exactly do you expect of them? If it had been, say, Susan Kennedy-Rodham and Tony L. Gore, who would you expect them to help? In to paraphrase the immortal Philip Francis Queeg, the whole fiasco was an unfortunate alignment of Chads, Harris and a Bush. Both the Bushites and the Gorbies were out to steal the election once Florida began the recounts, but the Bushites just did a better job. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-over-our-not-getting-over-it-ok/78384/80 "2001-08-28T16:34:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jodi \* > \*\*Oh, I assure you I read every dulcet syllable of your post(s) before replying. And I think you’re full of shit, and I said so. If Gore had won the election in the same way Bush did (and I regret to inform you, but Bush won), you would be happy as clam and _I_ would be pissed off. The difference is, of course, that I would have shut up about it months ago, realizing that (a) there is no value in continuing to complain over that which cannot be helped; (b) there are _way_ more important things to be critical about now (such as the job your guy is doing in office, now that he’s in); and (c) I look like an obsessive _moron_ when I refuse to the issue go > > … > > As for you not knowing what subject you’re posting about, I begin to believe you need a remedial course in “Reality 101: Your Ass And A Hole In The Ground – A Comparative Study.” Gore LOST, Elvis is DEAD, and _you_ need to get over it. \*\* Jodi, it’s not all that often I agree with you, but you certainly have your moments. I didn’t know lawyers could speak in poetry! hahahaha 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-over-our-not-getting-over-it-ok/78384.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-over-our-not-getting-over-it-ok/78384.md?page=5)