# Get Ready For The GOP To Do Whatever They Can To Steal This Election (Too) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 4, 2012, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-ready-for-the-gop-to-do-whatever-they-can-to-steal-this-election-too/636746 "2012-10-04T21:48:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-ready-for-the-gop-to-do-whatever-they-can-to-steal-this-election-too/636746/101 "2012-10-06T02:23:30Z")
> [@](#): > > Once something illegal actually occurs, get back to me. I have a new legal term for you to fit into your vocabulary: “conspiracy”. Its illegal, just by itself, to plan to do something illegal. At my last count, we have something like a dozen self-confessed lawyers hereabouts. Maybe one of them will explain it to you. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-ready-for-the-gop-to-do-whatever-they-can-to-steal-this-election-too/636746/102 "2012-10-06T02:36:19Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > **Terr** , you’re being as bad as the ACORN deniers here. What happened in those training seminars was immoral and indefensible, even if it was technically legal. You’re better than that. What happened (if it happened) in those training seminars is, above all, stupid. If those people followed the alleged directions, they’d be committing crimes for which they would be prosecuted. Setting up your own activists for jail time is, at the very least, counterproductive. That’s the reason why I am taking those breathless reports with a huge dose of salt. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-ready-for-the-gop-to-do-whatever-they-can-to-steal-this-election-too/636746/103 "2012-10-06T02:37:23Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I have a new legal term for you to fit into your vocabulary: “conspiracy”. Its illegal, just by itself, to plan to do something illegal. > > At my last count, we have something like a dozen self-confessed lawyers hereabouts. Maybe one of them will explain it to you. If there was a crime committed, then Democrats should file a suit, shouldn’t they? I am waiting… ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-ready-for-the-gop-to-do-whatever-they-can-to-steal-this-election-too/636746/104 "2012-10-06T02:46:22Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > If there was a crime committed, then Democrats should file a suit, shouldn’t they? I am waiting… Only if it is a civil matter. Voter fraud is a criminal offense. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-ready-for-the-gop-to-do-whatever-they-can-to-steal-this-election-too/636746/105 "2012-10-06T02:52:55Z")
> [@fumster](#): > > Only if it is a civil matter. Voter fraud is a criminal offense. Even more serious then… Where’s the prosecution? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-ready-for-the-gop-to-do-whatever-they-can-to-steal-this-election-too/636746/106 "2012-10-06T04:25:50Z")
Oh, for Heaven’s sake! I’m not interested in putting any one in jail, I don’t need to punish. These people aren’t operating like a Leninist cell, in darkest secrecy. They didn’t skulk into a hidden lair to do this stuff, it was almost public. They probably don’t think they are doing anything wrong, they probably believe that they will, in fact, prove to be the last bulwark against the Horde. They have been lied to, hoodwinked. Very likely they were lied to by someone who believed it themselves. And the chain goes on, but sooner or later, you hit somebody who knows it isn’t true, but says it anyway. Now that sumbitch oughta get good and slammed up. Some dank place where inmates play harmonica and sing “Old Man Ribba”. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-ready-for-the-gop-to-do-whatever-they-can-to-steal-this-election-too/636746/107 "2012-10-06T06:06:55Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Oh, for Heaven’s sake! I’m not interested in putting any one in jail, I don’t need to punish. These people aren’t operating like a Leninist cell, in darkest secrecy. They didn’t skulk into a hidden lair to do this stuff, it was almost public. They probably don’t think they are doing anything wrong, they probably believe that they will, in fact, prove to be the last bulwark against the Horde. > > They have been lied to, hoodwinked. Very likely they were lied to by someone who believed it themselves. And the chain goes on, but sooner or later, you hit somebody who knows it isn’t true, but says it anyway. > > Now that sumbitch oughta get good and slammed up. Some dank place where inmates play harmonica and sing “Old Man Ribba”. I disagree. Doing wrong because you are stupid and credulous is just as bad as doing it because you are evil. It takes followers to implement evil, without them Charles Manson would have just been a failed musician, Obama bin Laden would have been an unknown disgruntled son of a billionaire, and there would be some more painted houses in Germany. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-ready-for-the-gop-to-do-whatever-they-can-to-steal-this-election-too/636746/108 "2012-10-06T10:15:04Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Oh, for Heaven’s sake! I’m not interested in putting any one in jail, I don’t need to punish. These people aren’t operating like a Leninist cell, in darkest secrecy. They didn’t skulk into a hidden lair to do this stuff, it was almost public. They probably don’t think they are doing anything wrong, they probably believe that they will, in fact, prove to be the last bulwark against the Horde. > > They have been lied to, hoodwinked. Very likely they were lied to by someone who believed it themselves. And the chain goes on, but sooner or later, you hit somebody who knows it isn’t true, but says it anyway. > > Now that sumbitch oughta get good and slammed up. Some dank place where inmates play harmonica and sing “Old Man Ribba”. “I was only following orders” is not a defence. I agree that, somewhere, there’s someone higher up who’s ultimately responsible, and they need to be found and dealt with, but so do the individuals who did this. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-ready-for-the-gop-to-do-whatever-they-can-to-steal-this-election-too/636746/109 "2012-10-06T14:52:52Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Your problem is (apart from being a hysterical partisan) that what we on the rational side have been saying about ACORN isn’t a lie at all - it’s true. ACORN really was corrupt, they really did break the law, the organization itself was convicted of a felony, not just employees. All these things are true, and have been proven to be true many times over. Yet people like you continue to deny it. > > The other thing is that people like you also claim that you want fair and honest elections and the rule of law. But that isn’t true either. Because when left-wing groups break the law, you deny it and lie about it and dismiss it and try to hand-wave it away and change the subject and then lie about it again. But when you think the GOP has done something, the standards change instantly and you begin screaming hysterically. > > And when you do that, it’s fun to mock you and watch the foam dribble down your chin as you scream invective at your betters. And there are lots and lots of them. > > Regards, > Shodan > [@Lobohan](#): > > You’re being lied to by people who want your vote, and know that riling up people like you is easier than motivating them with reason. > > You’re a dupe. Your anger is based on fiction and your outrage is manufactured. Actually, while there are certainly several dupes out there in the world, I tend to think of **Shodan** as a willing participant, and not a dupe. He IS a Doper, after all, and as such, the default presumption is that he is a high-information individual, unlike most dupes. I recognize that there are exceptions. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2012, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-ready-for-the-gop-to-do-whatever-they-can-to-steal-this-election-too/636746/110 "2012-10-20T04:13:17Z")
Remember [Diebold CEO Walden O’Dell’s commitment](http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/2004votefraud_ohio.html) “to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to [Bush]” in 2004? Since they seem to have gotten away with it then, they feel emboldened, I guess … [Does Mitt Romney’s Son Tagg Have An Investment In Some Ohio Voting Machines?](http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/19137) “[[PolitcolNews.com](http://PolitcolNews.com)] … claims that [Tagg] Romney owns an interest in Hart Intercivic voting machines which will be used to calculate votes in Hamilton County, [Ohio].” ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2012, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-ready-for-the-gop-to-do-whatever-they-can-to-steal-this-election-too/636746/111 "2012-10-20T04:34:17Z")
Can everyone turn down the shrill in here? I’m trying to sleep. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2012, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-ready-for-the-gop-to-do-whatever-they-can-to-steal-this-election-too/636746/112 "2012-10-20T05:04:48Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I have a new legal term for you to fit into your vocabulary: “conspiracy”. Its illegal, just by itself, to plan to do something illegal. > > At my last count, we have something like a dozen self-confessed lawyers hereabouts. Maybe one of them will explain it to you. I can explain it to you, elucidator. Typically, a conspiracy requires an _overt act_. It’s true that some jurisdictions define some offenses as not requiring an overt act, but that’s the rare case. In the majority of U.S. jurisdictions, it’s not illegal just by itself to plan to do something illegal. Typically, at least one conspirator must take some substantial step in furtherance of the criminal scheme. That step need not be itself illegal, but it must be intended to further the crime. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2012, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-ready-for-the-gop-to-do-whatever-they-can-to-steal-this-election-too/636746/113 "2012-10-20T16:23:04Z")
What, perzackly, is the point you are trying to make here, Counselor? That you know the legal definiion of conspiracy, and wish to imply or insinuate something? Because that’s all you’ve given us here is the definition. Oh, wait, I see, its the word “plan”, isn’t it? Again, **Bricker** wins the internet with his mad vocabulary skills. Meanwhile, as **Bricker** preens his semantic parsing skils, down in Ohio the real game is being played by Secretary of State John Husted, putting himself in contention for the Katherine Harris Civic Virtue Award. Having been spanked by the courts (you remember the courts, right, **Bricker**?..final arbiters of truth and justice…), he continues on his merry way. As reported in The Nation, amongst others: > **[Another Loss for Voter Suppression: Pre-Election Early Voting Upheld in Ohio](https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/another-loss-voter-suppression-pre-election-early-voting-upheld-ohio/)** > > The bad news? Ohio’s Secretary of State swiftly limited early voting hours. > [@](#): > > …Ohio Secretary of State Jon Husted swiftly limited early voting hours on those crucial three days to 8 am–2 pm on Saturday, November 3; 1–5 pm on Sunday, November 4; and 8 am–2 pm on Monday, November 5. That means Ohio voters will have a total of only sixteen hours to cast a ballot during those three days. And before the weekend before the election, Ohio voters will still not be able to cast a ballot in-person on nights or weekends… Boy, voter confidence is just brimming over down in Ohio, huh, **Bricker!** Its hard even to imagine all the voter fraud being symied! But many of us here see this as another effort to trim the ghastly prospect of undesirable voters turning out to exercise their so-called “rights”. I’m sure you have another explanation, Counselor. We wait with bated breath. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2012, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-ready-for-the-gop-to-do-whatever-they-can-to-steal-this-election-too/636746/114 "2012-10-20T17:03:07Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Oh, for Heaven’s sake! I’m not interested in putting any one in jail, I don’t need to punish. These people aren’t operating like a Leninist cell, in darkest secrecy. They didn’t skulk into a hidden lair to do this stuff, it was almost public. They probably don’t think they are doing anything wrong, they probably believe that they will, in fact, prove to be the last bulwark against the Horde. > > They have been lied to, hoodwinked. Very likely they were lied to by someone who believed it themselves. And the chain goes on, but sooner or later, you hit somebody who knows it isn’t true, but says it anyway. > > Now that sumbitch oughta get good and slammed up. Some dank place where inmates play harmonica and sing “Old Man Ribba”. Take [this guy](http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/republican-campaign-worker-charged-with-voter-registration-fraud/2012/10/19/c07cc378-1a01-11e2-94aa-9240e72ee00b_story.html), for example: > [@](#): > > Colin Small, 23, of Phoenixville, Pa., was arrested Thursday by sheriff’s deputies in Rockingham County, in the state’s Shenandoah Valley, on 13 charges of voter registration fraud. The alleged crime happened Monday, when a business owner in Harrisonburg, Va., reported that someone had discarded eight voter registration forms behind his store. > > The documents had been filled out, placed in a folder and stuffed into a bag, store owner Rob Johnson told a Richmond area NBC affiliate and said in a posting on his Facebook page. > > An investigation led law enforcement to Small, who was described by the sheriff’s office as a “voter registration supervisor.” Small was employed by Pinpoint, a company contracted by the Republican Party of Virginia to register voters… Obviously, it won’t do all that much good to put Mr. Small in prison. It might, however, do quite a bit of good to take him aside, ask him if he’s heard stories about what happens to pasty skinny white guys in prison, and suggest that he might want to talk a bit about his superiors in this little racket. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-ready-for-the-gop-to-do-whatever-they-can-to-steal-this-election-too/636746/115 "2012-10-22T01:32:03Z")
Oh look, the [Virginia State Board of Elections is pointedly refusing to pursue charges](http://www.examiner.com/article/gop-controlled-virginia-board-of-elections-refuses-to-prosecute-gop-voter-fraud-1) of voter fraud against Colin Small. Color me surprised that in spite of all their shrill insistence that voter ID laws are necessary to prevent imaginary voter fraud the GOP steadfastly refuses to prosecute ACTUAL voter fraud so long as it works to their benefit. And in other news, civil rights groups have[requested the UN to monitor our elections](http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/263141-international-monitors-at-polling-places-draw-criticism-from-voter-fraud-group). This is great, we’re officially Somalia now. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-ready-for-the-gop-to-do-whatever-they-can-to-steal-this-election-too/636746/116 "2012-10-22T12:46:34Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I’m sure you have another explanation, Counselor. We wait with bated breath. I hope your “bated breath” was just for poetic effect … > [@](#): > > With bated breath and whispering humbleness, Say this; > 'Fair sir, you spit on me on Wednesday last; > You spurn’d me such a day; another time > You call’d me dog; and for these courtesies … … because to grovel at the feet of Shodan or the Brickhead and await enlightenment is masochistic. > [@SmartAleq](#): > > This is great, we’re officially Somalia now. Not yet, and Intrade gives it only a 39% chance come November. It is interesting that Doper [DEL]lunatics[/DEL] conservatives have never explained how their model of government differs from Somalia’s. I assume that America’s divinity (wasn’t it Jesus himself who said “America, God shed His Grace on Thee”?) means that our soon-to-be warlords, Rupert Murdoch, Koch Brothers, etc., are Saints sent by Heaven to bring Paradise. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-ready-for-the-gop-to-do-whatever-they-can-to-steal-this-election-too/636746/117 "2012-10-22T13:11:16Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I have a new legal term for you to fit into your vocabulary: “conspiracy”. Its illegal, just by itself, to plan to do something illegal. > > At my last count, we have something like a dozen self-confessed lawyers hereabouts. Maybe one of them will explain it to you. > [@Bricker](#): > > I can explain it to you, elucidator. > > Typically, a conspiracy requires an _overt act_. It’s true that some jurisdictions define some offenses as not requiring an overt act, but that’s the rare case. In the majority of U.S. jurisdictions, it’s not illegal just by itself to plan to do something illegal. Typically, at least one conspirator must take some substantial step in furtherance of the criminal scheme. > > That step need not be itself illegal, but it must be intended to further the crime. > [@elucidator](#): > > What, perzackly, is the point you are trying to make here, Counselor? That you know the legal definiion of conspiracy, and wish to imply or insinuate something? Yes. I wish to insinuate that the definition you gave of criminal conspiracy was in general incorrect. Perzackly. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-ready-for-the-gop-to-do-whatever-they-can-to-steal-this-election-too/636746/118 "2012-10-22T13:51:03Z")
Let’s see… in Virginia a Republican was found to have discarded voter registrations because they were from Democrats… in Ohio, billboards were put up (but later taken down) warning people that fraudelent voting was a felony and getting caught would put you in prison…Florida eliminates Sunday voting because of the tradition in the black community of going from the pews to the precinct on Sunday. Looks like the slime is starting to ooze out, right on schedule. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-ready-for-the-gop-to-do-whatever-they-can-to-steal-this-election-too/636746/119 "2012-10-22T14:17:30Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I assume that America’s divinity (wasn’t it Jesus himself who said “America, God shed His Grace on Thee”?) means that our soon-to-be warlords, Rupert Murdoch, Koch Brothers, etc., are Saints sent by Heaven to bring Paradise. Just for the record, the line you quoted was written by Katherine Lee Bates, who was on our side, as was her wife, and is in the h0rtatory subjunctive. Addressing America, it’s in the nature of a prayer that God – the God she believed in, who was open to science, scholarship, and social justice – that God might shed his grace on America, and crown its good with brotherhood. It was in effect a prayer to God FOR America,not a laudation of a divinely chosen America à la the modern Evangelical deity: America, America! God bless our theft of thee, Equip our pricks With Karl Rove’s tricks, All for the G.O.P.! ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-ready-for-the-gop-to-do-whatever-they-can-to-steal-this-election-too/636746/120 "2012-10-22T17:31:25Z")
i thought the Republicans found it cheaper to just have the candidate constantly switch positions. today i found Romney Family Investment Ties To Voting Machine Company [http://news.yahoo.com/romney-family-investment-ties-voting-machine-company-could-003209723.html](http://news.yahoo.com/romney-family-investment-ties-voting-machine-company-could-003209723.html) some machines that aren’t secure. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-ready-for-the-gop-to-do-whatever-they-can-to-steal-this-election-too/636746.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-ready-for-the-gop-to-do-whatever-they-can-to-steal-this-election-too/636746.md?page=7)