# Get rid of the one point PAT conversion in the NFL? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 22, 2014, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-rid-of-the-one-point-pat-conversion-in-the-nfl/679429 "2014-01-22T03:39:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-rid-of-the-one-point-pat-conversion-in-the-nfl/679429/81 "2014-01-24T04:35:04Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > Since the PAT is virtually automatic, people leave the TV after a TD is scored, and miss the commercials between the PAT and the kickoff. And if you decide you don’t need to see the kickoff, you will be away from the game for 5 minutes or so. That’s not good for selling advertisement time, and that’s why Roger is interested in doing something different with it. > > Right now, the NFL loses viewers after TD’s. I know I am not the only one who channel surfs after a TD is scored. Sometimes, i find something else that interests me more, so I don’t immediately go back to the game. The NFL knows this, and has seen it in their research numbers. > > When they figure out a way to keep the audience glued to the game between TD and kickoff, that is what the answer will be. > > This way, the viewer who leaves when the TD is scored might stick around, since the kickoff is the next play that will be shown. > > I think they will ultimately keep it as close to the current system as possible. Purists won’t react well narrowing goalposts, although i personally like this idea, especially for FG. > > The NFL needs to do something, though. The TD-EP-commercial-KO-commercial stretch is awful. And as bad as it is for the TV audience, the people in the stands and the players hate it more. The players basically stand around, and people watch the scoreboard, bored. The reason it takes so long for TD to KO is they jam commercials in there so it takes much longer than it needs to on the field. There’s no reason they couldn’t run the between play clock and say they have to get the PAT play off and the kick-off kicked within the usual time limit. They don’t do this because they want to put the commercials in. I don’t see them eliminating the PAT just so they could cut a a commercial and speed it up. They could do that in any case. And if they keep all the commercials they have now and just eliminate the PAT, that would only make the fans who watched more bored. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-rid-of-the-one-point-pat-conversion-in-the-nfl/679429/82 "2014-01-24T13:55:35Z")
Those of you complaining about all the play stoppage time to fit in TV commercials need to remind yourselves who pays for the whole spectacle. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-rid-of-the-one-point-pat-conversion-in-the-nfl/679429/83 "2014-01-24T14:02:32Z")
I reject the idea that reducing the number of commercials during the game would cause the NFL to collapse. They simply would make a little bit less money, as would the players. They aren’t going to willingly make less money, nor should they. Ultimately, business decisions ride on how hard you can squeeze the thing that allows you to make money, your customers, your viewers, your suppliers, before they decide they don’t want to do business with you anymore. So, the NFL has large gaps in the action to sell commercials. That makes their viewers unhappy, but not unhappy enough to stop watching the games (yet). ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-rid-of-the-one-point-pat-conversion-in-the-nfl/679429/84 "2014-01-24T14:28:31Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Those of you complaining about all the play stoppage time to fit in TV commercials need to remind yourselves who pays for the whole spectacle. …and get a DVR. I start watching about an hour after kickoff. Haven’t had to sit through commercials or other stoppages in about a decade. ---
**Author:** ![fjs1fs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9e8a1a/32.png) [@fjs1fs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fjs1fs)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-rid-of-the-one-point-pat-conversion-in-the-nfl/679429/85 "2014-01-24T17:51:46Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > If the kicked PAT is too easy, make it a longer kick. Taking the “foot” out of football even more isn’t the way to go, imo. I’d love to totally take the “foot” out of football. Who watches games to see Field Goals and Punts? I say no punting or FG’s or PAT’s. The offense has four downs to get a First down, or eventually a TD. If they fail, the ball goes over to the other team. That would be so much more exciting, and the true football players (sorry, punters and kickers) would decide every game’s outcome. Leads would be harder to protect too, because you have to keep moving the ball instead of punting it 40 yards down field. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-rid-of-the-one-point-pat-conversion-in-the-nfl/679429/86 "2014-01-24T18:14:23Z")
So, football is sports entertainment now? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-rid-of-the-one-point-pat-conversion-in-the-nfl/679429/87 "2014-01-24T18:22:16Z")
> [@fjs1fs](#): > > I’d love to totally take the “foot” out of football. Who watches games to see Field Goals and Punts? > > I say no punting or FG’s or PAT’s. The offense has four downs to get a First down, or eventually a TD. If they fail, the ball goes over to the other team. That would be so much more exciting, and the true football players (sorry, punters and kickers) would decide every game’s outcome. Leads would be harder to protect too, because you have to keep moving the ball instead of punting it 40 yards down field. No way. Field goals and punting add a huge strategic element to the game, IMHO. Football would be nowhere near as interesting if you take all those strategic elements out of it. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-rid-of-the-one-point-pat-conversion-in-the-nfl/679429/88 "2014-01-24T19:02:50Z")
I like the idea of the upper crossbar, and you could fasten a net around the square to make it easy to judge. Ball winds up in the net, kick is good. Want the PATs to be less automatic, then make the trying team play with 10 men or the defenders play with 12. Or both, and let the defense run back blocked PATs for 2 points of their own. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-rid-of-the-one-point-pat-conversion-in-the-nfl/679429/89 "2014-01-24T19:12:56Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > The reason it takes so long for TD to KO is they jam commercials in there so it takes much longer than it needs to on the field. There’s no reason they couldn’t run the between play clock and say they have to get the PAT play off and the kick-off kicked within the usual time limit. They don’t do this because they want to put the commercials in. I don’t see them eliminating the PAT just so they could cut a a commercial and speed it up. They could do that in any case. And if they keep all the commercials they have now and just eliminate the PAT, that would only make the fans who watched more bored. You missed my point. I don’t believe that the NFL is looking to cut any commercials. That means cutting revenue, and that isn’t something the NFL is eager to do. No, what they are interested in is keeping as many eyes as possible glued to the tv station carrying the game, and reduce the channel changing as the commercials come on. When a TD is scored, many folks reach for the remote. Why do you think they said that they review every TD play now? Keeps many folks from instantly switching if they think a play might be overturned. But once the TD is deemed good, people switch. And it is because of the insufferable length of time between XP, commercial break, KO, Comm. Break. and then gsme play resumes. If they can figure a way to put an extra 15-30 second spot here and there throughout the game without making the home audience notice too much, that’s what they will do. And they will do it. XP kicks will be no more if the NFL can figure out a way to make more money by eliminating it. ---
**Author:** ![GreenElf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@GreenElf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenElf)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-rid-of-the-one-point-pat-conversion-in-the-nfl/679429/90 "2014-01-24T19:25:20Z")
> [@R.P.McMurphy](#): > > I think awarding 7 points for a touchdown with the option to go for a 1 point run/pass conversion and 1 point taken away for failing is too gimmicky. That’s the simplest solution though. It eliminates the boring field goal play, but retains the current scoring outcomes so it doesn’t tamper with game strategy. Other solutions such as changing kicking distance or the width of the goalposts change the game strategy, which I don’t think should be changed just to eliminate some boredom. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-rid-of-the-one-point-pat-conversion-in-the-nfl/679429/91 "2014-01-24T19:40:38Z")
> [@GreenElf](#): > > Other solutions such as changing kicking distance or the width of the goalposts change the game strategy, which I don’t think should be changed just to eliminate some boredom. But, the PAT kick wasn’t _always_ 99.6% successful. As recently as the 1960’s it was in the 90%-95% range. Greater kick difficulty would restore the older equilibrium, not change the game to something it has never been. ---
**Author:** ![GreenElf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@GreenElf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenElf)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-rid-of-the-one-point-pat-conversion-in-the-nfl/679429/92 "2014-01-24T19:58:55Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > But, the PAT kick wasn’t _always_ 99.6% successful. As recently as the 1960’s it was in the 90%-95% range. Greater kick difficulty would restore the older equilibrium, not change the game to something it has never been. Unless the goalposts are adjustable between plays, it would decrease the 3 pt. field goal completion rate. I suppose the ideal solution would be to move the kick distance back to attain the 90-95% range, but that changes the 2 pt conversion %. ---
**Author:** ![GreenElf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@GreenElf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenElf)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-rid-of-the-one-point-pat-conversion-in-the-nfl/679429/93 "2014-01-24T20:13:42Z")
> [@GreenElf](#): > > That’s the simplest solution though. It eliminates the boring field goal play, but retains the current scoring outcomes so it doesn’t tamper with game strategy. Okay, actually this solution would change the 2 pt conversion rate since the defense would no longer have to defend against the extra point although they probably defend more against the 2 pt threat anyhow. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-rid-of-the-one-point-pat-conversion-in-the-nfl/679429/94 "2014-01-24T20:28:12Z")
Why not just put a giant windmill in front of the goalposts, and the kicker has to get the ball between the blades? ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-rid-of-the-one-point-pat-conversion-in-the-nfl/679429/95 "2014-01-24T20:32:27Z")
If we start eliminating kicks, how will the Cowboys justify giving their kicker a 22.5 million dollar contract? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-rid-of-the-one-point-pat-conversion-in-the-nfl/679429/96 "2014-01-24T20:51:30Z")
> [@GreenElf](#): > > Unless the goalposts are adjustable between plays, it would decrease the 3 pt. field goal completion rate. It would, but from what I’ve read, the NFL has, in recent years, also been considering additional changes to the rules (such as narrowing the goal posts) to make field goals more difficult, as well. As has been noted, kickers in the NFL have become tremendously more accurate over the past 30-40 years. In the 1960s, extra points were successful around 95% to 97% of the time – still a very high percentage, but not quite “automatic” (and one should note that the goal posts were on the goal line until 1974, which meant that an XP was a 9-yard field goal). Accuracy on field goals was typically in the 50% - 55% range in the 1960s. Field goal accuracy steadily rose throughout the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s, and is now over 80% (kickers are trying, and making, longer field goals these days, as well). A kicker who converted 70% of his field goals 30 or 40 years ago would have been an All-Pro. Today, he’d be out of a job. The NFL, concerned about teams trying too many field goals (reasoning that a field goal is, generally, not an exciting play, compared to a touchdown, or a team going for it on 4th down), instituted the “K-ball” in 1999, with the intent of reducing accuracy, and making the field goal a less attractive option. However, it didn’t seem to have much, if any impact – field goal accuracy dropped a bit for a couple of years, then rebounded, as kickers adjusted to them. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-rid-of-the-one-point-pat-conversion-in-the-nfl/679429/97 "2014-01-24T20:57:15Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Sounds like a “solution” in search of a problem to me. There’s nothing wrong with PATs the way they are now. Sure, most of the time, it’s a gimme…but when it gets missed or blocked, it can be a game changer. Leave well enough alone. I concur. Sure, you don’t see many PATs missed or blocked. That’s why it’s such a game-changer when it DOES happen. That, and regular PATs give kickers game experience with little challenge, keeping them sharp for more challenging field goals. If you’re going to eliminate the PAT kick, eliminate the field goal, too. I don’t want to see either one happen; my worldview’s been screwed up enough as it is in recent years. Let them kick the damn ball. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-rid-of-the-one-point-pat-conversion-in-the-nfl/679429/98 "2014-01-24T21:13:11Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > That’s why it’s such a game-changer when it DOES happen. Well, except when it’s not. There were 5 PATs missed in the whole of the current NFL regular season. In two of those games, the team that missed the PAT lost by 4, so, depending on what actually happened in the game, you might argue that the miss was a game-changing event. It might have meant that those teams were forced to try for a TD rather than a FG on their final drive of the game, which changes things quite dramatically. In one case, the team that missed the PAT won the game by 4, and winning by 4 versus winning by 5 really doesn’t change anything at all. In the other two games where the PAT was missed, the teams that missed the PAT either lost the game by 14 points (Detroit), or won the game by 17 points (Chicago). I very much doubt that the missed PAT was a “game-changer” in those cases. ---
**Author:** ![Enright3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enright3/32/2897_2.png) [@Enright3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enright3)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-rid-of-the-one-point-pat-conversion-in-the-nfl/679429/99 "2014-01-24T21:15:57Z")
> [@randompattern](#): > > How about instead of narrowing the posts just put a crossbar on the top and the kicks have to be inside the square to count. I think that alone would take the “gimme” out of it. > [@John\_DiFool](#): > > You know, I kind of like this idea-the trajectory would perforce have to be lower, meaning higher chance of a block and subsequent runback. For PATs it probably wouldn’t matter much, nor would it for long-range kicks, but it would for medium length ones, making them less of a cinch-now that I think about it, the kicker would probably have to learn to take a little off of it so it wouldn’t sail too high, which would reward ‘feel’ more than brute force. > > Undoubtedly already implemented on Alternate Earth 67547892364789236478023634089. I came in here to add this suggestion. Change the goalposts from uprights to a square (or rectangle). It’s solves another problem with field goals; and that is when sometimes the kick seems so high you’re never really sure if it was inside the post or outside. ---
**Author:** ![Enright3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enright3/32/2897_2.png) [@Enright3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enright3)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-rid-of-the-one-point-pat-conversion-in-the-nfl/679429/100 "2014-01-24T21:25:07Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > (and one should note that the goal posts were on the goal line until 1974, which meant that an XP was a 9-yard field goal). And to me this is what makes Jack Dempsey’s 63 yard field goal seem so much more awesome. For him to kick that field goal, he was kicking from the 37 yard line on the OTHER side of the 50. [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/zrxTjgFYoU8/hqdefault.jpg "63 yard field goal by kicker Tom Dempsey (NFL Record)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrxTjgFYoU8) The blue painted grass is the 40 yard line. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-rid-of-the-one-point-pat-conversion-in-the-nfl/679429.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-rid-of-the-one-point-pat-conversion-in-the-nfl/679429.md?page=6)