# Get rid of the one point PAT conversion in the NFL? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 22, 2014, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-rid-of-the-one-point-pat-conversion-in-the-nfl/679429 "2014-01-22T03:39:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![GreenElf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@GreenElf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenElf)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-rid-of-the-one-point-pat-conversion-in-the-nfl/679429/101 "2014-01-24T21:46:17Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > It would, but from what I’ve read, the NFL has, in recent years, also been considering additional changes to the rules (such as narrowing the goal posts) to make field goals more difficult, as well. > > As has been noted, kickers in the NFL have become tremendously more accurate over the past 30-40 years. In the 1960s, extra points were successful around 95% to 97% of the time – still a very high percentage, but not quite “automatic” (and one should note that the goal posts were on the goal line until 1974, which meant that an XP was a 9-yard field goal). Accuracy on field goals was typically in the 50% - 55% range in the 1960s. > > Field goal accuracy steadily rose throughout the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s, and is now over 80% (kickers are trying, and making, longer field goals these days, as well). A kicker who converted 70% of his field goals 30 or 40 years ago would have been an All-Pro. Today, he’d be out of a job. > > The NFL, concerned about teams trying too many field goals (reasoning that a field goal is, generally, not an exciting play, compared to a touchdown, or a team going for it on 4th down), instituted the “K-ball” in 1999, with the intent of reducing accuracy, and making the field goal a less attractive option. However, it didn’t seem to have much, if any impact – field goal accuracy dropped a bit for a couple of years, then rebounded, as kickers adjusted to them. Good information. They should just narrow the goalposts then, although the windmill would be entertaining too. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-rid-of-the-one-point-pat-conversion-in-the-nfl/679429/102 "2014-01-24T21:52:56Z")
> [@Enright3](#): > > And to me this is what makes Jack Dempsey’s 63 yard field goal seem so much more awesome. For him to kick that field goal, he was kicking from the 37 yard line on the OTHER side of the 50. > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrxTjgFYoU8](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrxTjgFYoU8) > > The blue painted grass is the 40 yard line. Not only that, but Dempsey made that field goal in New Orleans (which is at, if not slightly below, sea level) – kicks (and punts) do travel a bit further at higher elevations (where the air is a bit thinner), and not quite as far at lower elevations. Not surprisingly, [three out of the five longest successful FGs in league history](http://www.profootballhof.com/history/2012/10/15/long-field-goals-in-NFL-history/) (Prater’s 64, and Elam’s and Janikowski’s 63s) have been kicked in Denver. Also of note: five out of the 14 longest have been made in the past two seasons. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-rid-of-the-one-point-pat-conversion-in-the-nfl/679429/103 "2014-01-24T22:23:58Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Not only that, but Dempsey made that field goal in New Orleans (which is at, if not slightly below, sea level) – kicks (and punts) do travel a bit further at higher elevations (where the air is a bit thinner), and not quite as far at lower elevations. Not surprisingly, [three out of the five longest successful FGs in league history](http://www.profootballhof.com/history/2012/10/15/long-field-goals-in-NFL-history/) (Prater’s 64, and Elam’s and Janikowski’s 63s) have been kicked in Denver. > > Also of note: five out of the 14 longest have been made in the past two seasons. I don’t think I’ve ever seen that footage before, but what stands out to me is that there’s like virtually no run-up to the kick. (ETA: If there’s confusion, the link is in **Enright3** ’s post. I mean, that’s like two-and-change yards straight on from the ball. I mean, it’s just one hop and a kick, and through the goalposts.) ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-rid-of-the-one-point-pat-conversion-in-the-nfl/679429/104 "2014-01-24T23:50:56Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I don’t think I’ve ever seen that footage before, but what stands out to me is that there’s like virtually no run-up to the kick. > > (ETA: If there’s confusion, the link is in **Enright3** ’s post. I mean, that’s like two-and-change yards straight on from the ball. I mean, it’s just one hop and a kick, and through the goalposts.) Typically, a kicker who’s trying a field goal will take two more-or-less full steps before the kick – any more than that, and while the kicker would be possibly generating more speed and power, they risk not getting it off before the defense gets to them. Looking at [this old video from Mark Moseley](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dQ721eJblc) (one of the last straight-on kickers in the NFL; look at the sample kick at around 0:50), he takes two steps, but the first one is a sort of a stutter step (later in the video, he refers to it as a “step and 1/2 approach”). I wonder if Dempsey’s shorter approach was related to his clubbed right foot, and not being able to take a good step with it – IIRC, in addition to the malformed foot, his right ankle was also more-or-less fused, so I have to imagine he was not a graceful walker, much less runner. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2014, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-rid-of-the-one-point-pat-conversion-in-the-nfl/679429/105 "2014-01-25T00:39:04Z")
Maybe what we are all missing here is the easiest answer. Make all kickers kick straight on again for field goals and extra points. That will add a lot of excitement back into the kicking game, and you don’t have to change a thing on the field, or how to score the game. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2014, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-rid-of-the-one-point-pat-conversion-in-the-nfl/679429/106 "2014-01-25T00:41:42Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I don’t think I’ve ever seen that footage before, but what stands out to me is that there’s like virtually no run-up to the kick. > > (ETA: If there’s confusion, the link is in **Enright3** ’s post. I mean, that’s like two-and-change yards straight on from the ball. I mean, it’s just one hop and a kick, and through the goalposts.) Dempsey’s kick always reminds me of that old super jock football game, where you had to punch down on a kicker’s head to “kick” a plastic football through the uprights. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2014, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-rid-of-the-one-point-pat-conversion-in-the-nfl/679429/107 "2014-01-25T00:44:51Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Not only that, but Dempsey made that field goal in New Orleans (which is at, if not slightly below, sea level) – kicks (and punts) do travel a bit further at higher elevations (where the air is a bit thinner), and not quite as far at lower elevations. Not surprisingly, [three out of the five longest successful FGs in league history](http://www.profootballhof.com/history/2012/10/15/long-field-goals-in-NFL-history/) (Prater’s 64, and Elam’s and Janikowski’s 63s) have been kicked in Denver. > > Also of note: five out of the 14 longest have been made in the past two seasons. Denver really is an easier place to kick… Janikowski’s 63 yarder was kicked on a day that he made a 70 yard fg in practice. That must be a kicker’s dream to play there. Dempsey’s kick blows my mind. A straight on kick in new orleans. THAT should make him the record holder forever. Kicking soccer style a mile above sea level is so much easier than what Dempsey did. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2014, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-rid-of-the-one-point-pat-conversion-in-the-nfl/679429/108 "2014-01-25T18:12:45Z")
The simplest change they could make would be to move the PAT _closer_, to the 1 yard line. I’d expect that to tip the balance, raising the chance of converting the 2 point conversion to over 50%. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2014, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-rid-of-the-one-point-pat-conversion-in-the-nfl/679429/109 "2014-01-25T19:40:11Z")
> [@Pixel\_Dent](#): > > Because what we need in the era of increased concussion awareness is more plays at the goal line with receivers running crossing patterns into charging linebacker. This is an asinine argument. Receivers running crossing patterns on just about every passing play close to the goal-line already, as well as on plenty of plays in other parts of the field. ---
**Author:** ![Man\_from\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Man\_from\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Man_from_Mars)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-rid-of-the-one-point-pat-conversion-in-the-nfl/679429/110 "2014-01-27T05:10:14Z")
> [@Enright3](#): > > And to me this is what makes Jack Dempsey’s 63 yard field goal seem so much more awesome. For him to kick that field goal, he was kicking from the 37 yard line on the OTHER side of the 50. > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrxTjgFYoU8](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrxTjgFYoU8) > > The blue painted grass is the 40 yard line. Of course you mean Tom Dempsey. Jack was the prizefighter. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-rid-of-the-one-point-pat-conversion-in-the-nfl/679429.md?page=5)