"Get the government off my back"

The BBQ Pit
101

I don’t wish to argue about whether one person or another ought to have to trim their hedges or not. Instead, I’d like to hear someone complaining about oppressive government list all of the regulations they personally find oppressive. Not what you heard about on TV or saw on-line. How is the gov’t on YOUR back.

Then, I’d like to hear bout the BENEFITS they perceive from gov’t. And if they don’t perceive significant benefits, they may benefit from some education. And many of those benefits might disappear if regulations were reduced.

102

We were looking to buy a home in northern Idaho. Guess what you don’t need to build a home in this region? Guess what we found looking at homes for sale? Do you think we want our house burning down due to Uncle Bob helping out with the wiring because he was an electrical apprentice for a couple weeks a few decades ago? No thank you very much. Sometimes I’d like the government on my back.

103

Typical RW trumpy guy:

Mufflers cost me lost performance on my pickup truck and reduce my gas mileage costing me money. Mufflers are required by Federal law. Screw that stupidity.

Etc.

If it’s personally inconvenient it’s overreach by definition.

104

Have they been through a winter there yet? That might take care of their continued residence. Of course, that still leaves the house there.

105

That’s what we were taught in high school, yes. What was never brought up was that it was two authoritarian states which were otherwise alike, each trying to prevail and impose their respective rule on the other. Because their heads of state wanted this, and ordered their citizens or subjects to go forth and attack each other, and the subjects obediently followed their instructions.

Authority and authoritarianism, obviously

Cruelty

Obedience and compliance with soi disant superiors, especially aimed against one’s peers or those perceived as lesser

Nosiness about what one’s peers are up to

The urge to inform on one’s neighbors

Lust for power over others

Self-righteousness and moralism

Conformity and especially coercion of conformity

Hypocrisy

The lies people tell themselves and others to justify those things

In other words, most of what passes for wholesome fucking norms and values and decency.

106

No, especially in the South there was genuine enthusiasm for the cause, their army was full of people fighting because they wanted the opportunity to own slaves.

And as far as them being “otherwise alike” goes, rather appropriately the old line “aside from that Mrs Lincoln how was the play?” Slavery was not some minor issue.

107

What have the Romans ever done for us?

108

The husband says he has lived on a different road in this ‘subdivision’ about a mile away and downhill from their new place. I don’t know for how long though. I doubt more than 2 years. Not sure if his wife has ever lived here.

While it’s beautiful, It’s crazy stupid to retire at this elevation. Many people that visit get altitude sickness.

They’ve already had so many problems with the septic system, perhaps the project will be abandoned. But they already have a lot invested in it.

109

And the rule one of them was trying to impose was to own people.

Does saying “slavery is wrong” count as self-righteousness?

110

Reminds me of reading the CSA Constitution. Very similar in most respects to the US Constitution. Only for, ya know, the part where states must allow slavery and are explicitly not allowed to ban it. So much for states’ rights or authoritarianism or whatever.

All that sophistry about authoritarianism, states’ rights, moralism, and other nonsense is just that - nonsense. It’s post-hoc rationalization of something that is clearly and explicitly written. Both sides of that conflict knew exactly what it was about, and the losing side even spelled it out in their primary legal document - it was about the right to own people first and foremost and explicitly not allowing that to be deregulated. Otherwise, both sides largely agreed on everything else and got along fine most of the time - except on that one issue. Imposing of wills and so forth is some sophomoric BS I’d expect of a not-so-clever high schooler playing at philosophy.

111

You asked me what I thought was evil, and I told you. More fool I, to assume sincere interest on your part. If I needed a condescending lecture around stuff I learned in high school, I’d have requested one.

112

Yes, and I appreciate it. One of your answers was “self-righteousness and moralism”. Sometimes that can be annoying, but sometimes it’s justified. You may think it’s self-righteous to say “slavery is wrong”; I think it’s accurate.

113

The parking space regulations might explain what I see a lot in Mesa, AZ.

The big stores, and outside malls, have weird parking. There are always spaces around the back side of the building, where not even the employees park. These spaces are always empty. But there they are. That must be part of the required number of spaces. Fortunately, the business are never full.

Unlike when I lived in Los Angeles. More than once I drove every row in a lot, several times, and never found a spot. Their regulations need to be revised!

OK. I have a camping trailer. The laws in Mesa are it can only be parked in your driveway (or the street in front) for three days. Some trips, I want to do some maintenance on the trailer. But no, three days and I get a nastygram from the city.

Parking in the street creates a hazard for driving, and for walking on the sidewalk. Not having a trailer in the street is a benefit.

But how am I impacting anything by having a trailer in my driveway? I can park the biggest-assed pickup truck there, the ugliest car (as long as it runs), but a trailer? Begone! Why does the city care?

Especially when they selectively enforce it.

114

Apologies if I was unclear. I meant the total benefits you derive from the government, as opposed to this one IMO relatively minor inconvenience.

Maybe the city (and its residents) does not want trailers, boats, whatever indefinitely stored in driveways. Doesn’t strike me as necessarily unreasonable. Maybe a majority of Mesa residents don’t wanna look at your trailer for long periods of time. Or not enough trailer owners have gotten together to urge a change of that law.

I’m sure you have a well maintained trailer that you consider reasonably attractive. If you object to 3 days, is there ANY limit you would find reasonable? Should you be able to permanently store it in your driveway? What if - instead of being an avid camper, you were a neighbor who preferred not to look at a camper all the time? (I can still remember the name of the camper (The AVENGER) that our neighbors across the street 30 yrs ago parked behind their garage such that THEY did not have to see it, but it was right in the middle of the view out of our living room bow window. Not a big deal, but certainly not my preferred constant view.)

You’ve certainly got plenty of options to live elsewhere, live somewhere that you can park it on the side or behind your house, do your maintenance in 3 day stretches, or do your maintenance where your store it. I’m pretty sure there are communities that run the entire gamut, from no overnight parking of any vehicles outside of garages, to park whatever you want wherever you want. You get to pick.

The fact that there is one regulation that mildly inconveniences one aspect of your preferred recreation does not impress me as excessive government “on your back.”

Now THAT I would agree with. Unfortunately, too many municipalities rely on resident complaints to spur enforcement, as opposed to strictly citing all obvious violations. I doubt the police have a system to record the dates they spot each trailer in a driveway to keep track whether 3 days is exceeded. But your neighbor is very aware and wondering, “How long is the damn thing gonna sit there THIS time?” In my neighborhood, the one I’d like strictly enforced is parking over the sidewalk.

115

Perhaps this isn’t you but it’s possible that someone is living in a trailer parked in the driveway.

116

Now I’m starting to go out on a tangent, that I may not actually agree with under all circumstances, but, who cares?

If I convert my garage to a room, and let my grandmother or my de-housed college roommate live there, is that any different than if they stay in my trailer in the driveway? If no one can tell, why does it matter?

(Yes, yes, in the extreme I have a bunch of inbred hillbillies with 15 kids and ten dogs and five junked cars living on my lawn, and crapping on the sidewalk. But I don’t, and if I did, that can be handled by normal laws. I have one, nice, quiet, empty trailer.)

If I have a fence with a gate on my side yard, and the trailer sits there, still visible from the street, but behind a six foot fence, why is that OK? With or without people living in it?

Remember, I follow the law. But this thread is about annoying regulations, and this one certainly seems annoying with little upside.

Here, at least, they do. I saw their little compliance truck driving down the street right before I got a notice. My neighbors wouldn’t complain, we all bitch about the city’s enforcement. Especially, as noted, there is a trailer one street over that has been parked in the street, with the slide out blocking the sidewalk, for what seems like a year. I guess they go to the right church.

117

Exactly how do you propose “the extreme” be delineated? Not trying to slippery slope you or anything, just suggesting the difficulties in enacting and enforcing any standards. It would be nice if the gov’t could just say, “Everyone act reasonably and responsibly, OK?” But that won’t work. Someone is always going to go right up to the limit and ask, why can’t I take one more step? So - 1 inhabited trailer in the driveway is OK by you? How about 2? 3?..

Do you agree that the govt has a legitimate role in defining habitability requirements - for builders, homeowners, and landlords? Is it also legitimate for the govt to protect renters’ rights? Require that landlords provide various health and safety minimums? Does the government have a valid interest in exercising some control over population density? Do you oppose zoning and building codes? Have you read your municipal code? If so, are there portions you agree with, or portions other than trailer parking you disagree with?

How do you propose that the extremes can be avoided - your inbred hillbillies with 15 kids… - without setting some sorts of limits that ostensibly reasonable and responsible people might wish to exceed?

My understanding is that many locations are expanding permissible “Accessory Dwelling Units” - nanny flats, coach houses, etc., to allow homeowners flexibility and to ease housing shortage. If folk wanted to petition Mesa to allow trailers in driveways as DUs, have at it.

Have you ever complained about that trailer - to your police department or local alderperson? Or, does that trailer not bother you, other than the fact that YOU are not allowed to similarly flout the law? Or maybe consider attending “the right church”! :wink:

118

It’s a cult. :slight_smile:

I wanted to stay out of the extremes and stay comfortable in the excluded middle. There can be a happy middle ground. But since this was a thread about government on my back, I just wanted to mention my small burden. It affects me, I don’t like it, but I accept it.

As for moving, not at my age. We have far too much stuff.

The house to the north of us has a great RV parking space. Would have been great for my boat when I had it, and would be great for the trailer. (The neighbors keep their catering trailer there.) Too bad it wasn’t for sale when I bought mine.

119

Don’t mufflers actually improve mileage?

Also not brought up in high school was that it was ultimately a collaboration between the Tooth Fairy, Bigfoot, and Elvis who brokered the end of the war and reunified the country.

Both of these things were not brought up for the same reason.

120

I thought this wasn’t strictly about habitability, but just about parking, whether the trailer is inhabited or not.

I’m curious how the three days is calculated. If you hooked the trailer up to a car, towed it around the block, and then right back to the driveway, would that restart the three-day clock?