Get the Truth Out on Autism

:confused: If it matters, I do have a Ph.D. and am currently in clinical practice. The two guys you cited also have Ph.D.s, so I don’t have the faintest idea what their higher education involves.

I do know the literature, and it is clear that discrete trial behavioral interventions are hands down the most well-supported treatments for autism.

At the same time, the vast majority of the research on vaccines finds no evidence of any link between vaccine and autism.

Their obsolescence will come about when they are empirically shown to be less effective than some other treatment. That hasn’t happened yet. There is no evidence to indicate that mercury causes autism. I’m sorry if that is hard to accept as a parent, but as an advocate for this treatment, you should be much better prepared to offer evidence of its effectiveness than “Go see some guy on Yahoo!”

You are flat out wrong about this. The largest increase in autism has happened in just the last 10 years. Perhaps it’s merely a sign of better diagnostic skills. Perhaps it’s a sign of our society’s increasing disconnection from the real world – television, video games, and the like. Who knows? NOBODY knows what triggers autism yet…and it’s likely to have multiple, various causes. Not just mercury.

A bit of background on one of the “experts” (from a sympathetic source):

(“Space-elated” should probably read “space-related.” But I just Cut’n’Pasted.)

I respectfully disagree, counsellor. What you describe is how some people choose to understand terms that are functionally identical, but it is a distinction without a difference. Many people do it for the reason you gave or as a way of gaining a form of control over the condition, in a way fighting it “on their own terms” rimshot, but others seem to do these things to reinforce their feelings of victimization by creating an insult where none was intended. Changing the word order does nothing to real life perceptions of the person or their condition, but if artificially mangling the language makes them feel better I will usually go along, especially when the requester looks like Jenny McCarthy. Not that it would improve the real odds of her sleeping with me, but I can be delusional, too.

A PhD in psychology is hardly comparable to one in Chemistry when discussing the best method to rid the brain of mercury.

“it is clear that discrete trial behavioral interventions are hands down the most well-supported treatments for autism.”
Being the most well supported doesn’t mean they are effective. Discrete trials have never cured an autistic child. They remain from the dark ages of autism, before 1999 when Thomas Verstraeten showed us proof that mercury had caused the epidemic. Hanging on to ancient methods that never worked is not conducive to helping children. Updating your knowledge by learning from experts who have actually cured autism might make you more useful to autistic children. Since I am one of those experts who has advised some parents who did cure their autistic children, I’m happy to share that knowledge. You can argue with me, or learn something. For the sake of your clients, I hope you decide to open your mind and learn what I can teach you. I’ve really had enough of arguing with people who think their old textbooks are the only useful source of information on autism. Knowledge on autism changes constantly. You’re not up to date.

I wouldn’t jump to that conclusion precipitously. :wink:

Hmmmmm, PhD in Psychology vs Phd in Chemistry? Not even Biochemistry? Sorry, foresam, but the judges are going to have to give this one to Hentor.

Perhaps not. Who has better training and experience in evaluating interventions for behavioral problems in children? Now, autism is not my specialty area in terms of research, but I have published peer reviewed papers in my specialty area - the disruptive behavior disorders. That’s what I’m looking for from you. Anything that has been peer reviewed and published to support the effectiveness of this intervention. What I have read says that there isn’t yet empirical support for what you are talking about.

Actually, it does, in that when I say well-supported, I mean supported by the presence of empirical evidence suggesting that they are effective.

I’m waiting, rather patiently for you to provide that very education. If you are expert, I’m surprised that you are having such trouble giving even the simplest of cites for your claims. If you want me to replace my textbooks (and journals and CE and pubmed and psycinfo) you’re going to have to give me something to put there other than “a guy on yahoo”.

I’m waiting, too. If foresam really knows “parents who cured their autistic children,” the world needs to know about it. To withhold such information is downright criminal.

To Hentor, and other experts – what is “stereotyped behavior”, precisely? I’ve read that term in the DSM-IV, but I’m not clear on what it means. Is it related to obsessive-compulsive behavior?

I’m not an expert, but stereotyped behavior is repeated behavior. If somebody who is exposed to stimulus X always does action Y, action Y is stereotyped behavior.

Contrapuntal, I regret my lack of diplomacy in refusing to verify personal details about Amanda. I don’t generally run background checks on my friends, and the friend in question has endured more than her fair share of investigation into her personal history. To generally address your concerns about the apparent incompatibility between certain autistic people’s impairments and their abilities, achievements and aspirations, I recommend Leo Kanner’s article, “How Far Can Autistic Children Go In Matters of Social Adaptation?” (Neurodiversity in Business). It’s a long-range follow-up study of the cohort of children originally described in his 1943 paper, “Autistic Disturbances of Affective Contact” (Neurodiversity in Business), and offers some telling illustrations of the ability of autistic individuals to develop over time.

tomndebb, my apologies if my first post seemed like a personal attack. It’s a challenge to express deeply felt offense in an impersonal manner; I sought to criticize conclusions, statements and convictions, rather than personally condemn the people who expressed them. My “disclosure” was intended as just that; I meant to disclose the subtext underlying part of the interaction – subtext of which your regular readers were probably unaware – offer a cite regarding my own part in creating that subtext, and move on to substantive matters.

EJsGirl, congratulations on your son’s progress; it sounds like you’ve provided him with the support he’s needed, when he’s needed it. ConcernedParent, I hope your son is doing well and getting the educational and social support he needs. I hope that he has benefited from some of the treatments and therapies that you have tried, and hope that he has not been harmed by those that have not lived up to their promise. I wish your family all the best.

DSeid, thanks for acknowledging that my website links to sites that reflect perspectives with which I might not agree. My “point” in this endeavor is to enable access to a wide range of information and opinions, including those with which others might vehemently disagree.

I don’t think it’s appropriate or productive to pathologize a person’s concern for the ultimate use of information collected through genetic research by likening that concern to a “paranoid delusion.” The ethics of genetic testing and selective abortion (aka “primary prevention”) are the subject of extensive, justifiable debate among medical ethicists and disability rights activists. (See http://www.virginia.edu/uvanewsmakers/newsmakers/caplan.html, Utilitarian and http://www.ragged-edge-mag.com/0799/b799ps.htm for a taste.) With respect to the original subject of this thread, the GTTO site does not delve into the subject of genetic testing at any great length, although other writers certainly do. I have found only one instance of the word “genocide” (at Getting the Truth Out) – “Meanwhile, worldwide, like many other disabled people, we are devalued, abused, denied communication systems, starved, neglected, underemployed, forcibly drugged, wrongly incarcerated, murdered, tortured, and subject to genocide.” I do not regard this as inflammatory, but as an accurate characterization of the systematic extermination of 80,000 physically and cognitively disabled people in 1930’s and 1940’s Germany. (See Mark Mostert’s Useless Eaters: Disability as Genocidal Marker in Nazi Germany [School of Education | Regent University] for more background on this.) Amanda’s essay, “Just Look At Them And You’ll Understand” (ameliabaggs.com — Domain default page) discusses genetic screening from the perspective of a member of a class of people who might be the target of such screening. It’s certainly a perspective worth considering; in the essay, that perspective is expressed in a pointed yet civilized manner.

I do not presume to be a “representative of the neurodiversity movement.” I own the domain name, but not the meme. Each person for whom that meme has significance will have their own take on its meaning and their own perspective on many different issues. My own opinions are all over my weblog and in numerous letters to editors and others that I have written over the years. These opinions do not include wholesale opposition to early education or other effective “treatments and therapies,” allowing autistic children to “run amok,” passively accepting violent or self-destructive behavior, withholding effective means of enabling development of communication skills, or advocacy for indiscriminate provision of public benefits to those who do not really need them. These opinions do include a general opposition to the misrepresentation of scientific evidence in the marketing of various “treatments and therapies,” some of them promoted as cures for autism; these include overpriced nutritional supplements and regimens, chelation, and off-label administration of other pharmaceuticals such as Lupron and Actos.

To concur with another of DSeid’s statements: “Adults with moderate to severe autism cannot get by independently. They need services and a structured predictable environment. Providing that requires money. That is the truth… “Cure” is not an option, but helping them manage so as to be disabled as little as possible, that is possible.” Physical and cognitive difference and disability are part of the human condition. Human interdependence is part of the human condition. If disability is a consequence of harm, of course the source of harm should be identified and removed. One example where this was accomplished: the MMR vaccine, which made a very real difference in reducing the incidence of rubella, which consequently helped to reduce the incidence of cognitive impairment caused by rubella. At the same time that researchers are conducting their research into the causes of autism, and seeking to minimize harm, autistic people need to be enabled to make the best of their lives. That’s why I focus on supporting research and services aimed at improving quality of life for autistic people.

It simply refers to the repetitive movements often seen in autism, like hand-flapping, rocking or headbanging. It is an interesting term - I’m not sure of its origin in this context. ETA: Ah, apparently it has such connotations outside of autism - thanks Captain Amazing.

Hentor,
The empirical evidence you seek is taught in medical schools, has been for over 60 years. Chelation is the standard treatment for mercury poisoning. No diffrerent than prescribing an aspirin for a headache. It’s common knowledge amongst MD’s.

The problem here is that it was MD’s who put too much mercury into the infants. They are reluctant to admit their malpractice. I became an expert by listening to DAN doctors and Andy Cutler. That’s why my kid’s much better than he was.

My expertise is in methods of helping autistic kids, not digging up cites. You can go to the Autism Research Institute, Generation Rescue, Safe Minds or the Autism _Mercury Yahoo group if you feel the need to look it up yourself.

Wrong. My autistic child did not receive mercury-preserved vaccines. My son did not and does not have elevated metal levels. Discrete trials and one-on-one ABA did indeed “cure” my child.

ABA did “cure” my child, and thousands of others, so I guess you should be signing up for Erik Lovaas’ next seminar, since it works.

Up to date has little to do with it. Your idea that autism is solely caused by mercury poisoning and that chelation is a better alternative than ABA for every child is wrong.

EJ’s girl,
Not doubting you but I’d like to know more. Was your child verbal? Was he or she high or low functioning to begin with? Did he or she make eye contact, smear feces, eat, sleep, have “gut” problems?

I didn’t say autism was caused solely by mercury so please don’t put words in my mouth. I did say that mercury is responsible for most autism. If it ever completely removed from vaccines and dental amalgams, we may see the number of new cases dwindle down to near zero.

My son was nonverbal, he did not make eye contact, he had sensory issues, he did a fair amount of stimming & repetitive behaviors, he had gnarly outbursts and tantrums, he had zero socialization skills. He was considered high functioning, though. No gut problems (thank God).

He now has the verbal ability of a neurotypical child, engages socially, offers and reciprocates affection, has good eye contact, no stimming or repetitive behaviors, no problems with sensory stuff (sticky, wet, hot, etc). He is pretty much neurotypical now.

This is after 3 years of speech & language therapy and just over 2 years of ABA.

EJ’s girl,
I guess you’re one of the lucky ones who did not have to deal with mercury. Do you have any idea what caused it?

I think what Hentor was asking for was not proof that chelation is the accepted treatment for mercury poisioning. He was most likely asking for proof that mercury poisioning from vaccines is what causes autism. Do you have any cites that show that?

Bolding mine…

:dubious:

Huh? IIRC, autism symptoms generally present between the ages of 1.5 - 2.5 years, long before dental fillings would be an issue.

Hehehe, weren’t we just recently discussing the Scotsman’s Fallacy?

Folks, trying to convince foresam of anything is a waste of your time. foresam believes that mercury has caused vast amounts of autism. Despite the fact that this assertion is without empirical support, this belief is still strongly held. All attempts to debunk the belief are simply the efforts of the malpracticing doctors and the evil pharmaceutical companies to cover up their decision to poison millions of children with mercury. All it needs is someone on the grassy knoll to be complete.

I’d stop bothering if I were you. foresam has no ability to prove the assertions being made, other than to point to the persons who have sold the concept to him/her, and debating that is kind of pointless, n’est-ce pas? :smack:

I know, and I stayed away as long as I could, but then got sucked in… Who says impulse control is only a problem in kids? :wink:

It does make me incredibly sad that people in the “it’s all mercury’s fault” and the “your kid doesn’t need any therapy, just let him ‘be’” camps attract so many desperate, terrified parents willing to grasp at any straw, no matter how flimsy.

:frowning: