# "Get this thing off my back!" A Canuck Doper Universal Health Care case study **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 19, 2012, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-this-thing-off-my-back-a-canuck-doper-universal-health-care-case-study/628699 "2012-07-19T09:50:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-this-thing-off-my-back-a-canuck-doper-universal-health-care-case-study/628699/41 "2012-07-25T05:20:18Z")
> [@StGermain](#): > > How hot is it in Saskatchewan this time of year? > > StG day-time highs fluctuating from around 22 C to 30 C. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-this-thing-off-my-back-a-canuck-doper-universal-health-care-case-study/628699/42 "2012-07-25T05:24:07Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Health care spending is a provincial thing, not federal. The Province of Saskatchewan is spending somewhere in the vicinity of $4.5 billion on health care this year. ([cite - see pg. 85](http://www.finance.gov.sk.ca/Budget2012-13/2012-13Estimates.pdf)) That comes to approximately $4300 per resident. Since this money doesn’t come from a poll tax, how much any given person pays for health care depends on their income, their spending habits, their capital gains, etc. And then there’s the complication that the federal government contributes to the cost of health care, by sending what are called transfer payments to the provincial governments. So you can’t just look at your provincial tax bill - you’ve contributed to the provincial health care system by paying federal taxes, making the allocation calculation even more difficult. ---
**Author:** ![Mona\_Lisa\_Simpson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ce7236/32.png) [@Mona\_Lisa\_Simpson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mona_Lisa_Simpson)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-this-thing-off-my-back-a-canuck-doper-universal-health-care-case-study/628699/43 "2012-07-25T10:51:13Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > This would vary by province, of course; but right now, I don’t believe any province allows physicians to bill patients over and above the approved fee schedule. (We’d call this “extra-billing.”) I remember when Ontario outlawed extra-billing years ago (1980s?); banning it was somewhat controversial at the time, but “no extra-billing” has since become the accepted norm. I don’t remember the exact details but my Dad’s doctor “extra billed” in the late 1970s early 1980s. I think my dad had to pay up front and get re imbursed by OHIP and (possibly his extended health plan at work). Next time I am talking to him I will find out more details if anyone cares. I know it ended sometime around 1987 or so, because I was in my final year of high school and the (anachronism alert!) Grade 13 class I was in were very politically aware and debate minded. I remember a classmate saying “Extra billing is ridiculous, my mother doesn’t extra bill!” We pointed out her mother was a pathologist and mainly dealt with cadavers and specimens, and who, exactly, would the doctor be extra billing? ---
**Author:** ![Ibanez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a4c791/32.png) [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-this-thing-off-my-back-a-canuck-doper-universal-health-care-case-study/628699/44 "2012-07-25T11:59:33Z")
Here’s an [editorial](http://lavalnews.ca/editorial/Want-to-know-what-Canada-health-care-system-costs-you-192361) on how much health care costs Canadians based on their salaries for 2011. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-this-thing-off-my-back-a-canuck-doper-universal-health-care-case-study/628699/45 "2012-07-25T13:38:13Z")
You mentioned you had a drug plan at work - how much is that? Assuming it’s a separate expense. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-this-thing-off-my-back-a-canuck-doper-universal-health-care-case-study/628699/46 "2012-07-25T13:43:08Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Since Keflex is a listed drug on the Sask Pharmaceuticals list, it’s covered by my drug plan at work, which picks up the entire cost. For any Americans following along, an employer’s prescription drug plan that covers 100% is a better than average plan (in my Ontario experience). I’ve usually had 80% coverage. Northern Piper, did you get a receipt that says “Cost of drug $N, cost to you $0”? It might be useful for our American friends to show what the cost of the antibiotic would be in absence of coverage. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-this-thing-off-my-back-a-canuck-doper-universal-health-care-case-study/628699/47 "2012-07-25T13:49:48Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You mentioned you had a drug plan at work - how much is that? Assuming it’s a separate expense. I can’t speak for him, but in general it varies. My employers have generally given me a number of “flex credits” based on my salary, and those credits can be used to buy different plans (usually 20% coverage, 50% coverage, 80% coverage or 90% coverage). But I also get bonus credits if I buy a package (like dental + prescription drugs, say). If I choose not to buy insurance, my current employer allows me to put the credits in a special health account that I can use to pay for out-of-pocket health expenses. A previous employer allowed me to get a smaller amount of taxable income instead, but that was an exception. Most places I’ve worked have given me money that I can only use for health purposes, full stop. My current insurance package which pays 80% drug/dental for myself costs about $1750 per year. ---
**Author:** ![Shawn\_K\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Shawn\_K\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shawn_K_1)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-this-thing-off-my-back-a-canuck-doper-universal-health-care-case-study/628699/48 "2012-07-25T14:24:52Z")
Nice thread Piper, hope the cyst isn’t serious 🙂 I live in BC and I would have to pay somewhere around $50-$60 a month for healthcare except for the fact that work pays it for me. We have a crappy benefits plan at work that covers 80% of prescriptions but don’t know if it’s only up to a certain amount per year. If I didn’t have a work plan I’d pay 100% of the prescription. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-this-thing-off-my-back-a-canuck-doper-universal-health-care-case-study/628699/49 "2012-07-25T14:48:21Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > day-time highs fluctuating from around 22 C to 30 C. Oh, that would be lovely. StG ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-this-thing-off-my-back-a-canuck-doper-universal-health-care-case-study/628699/50 "2012-07-25T15:14:53Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > \*\* Best to have it removed, which is an out-patient procedure. Just remember to have the entire process videoed, then put it up on [popthatzit.com](http://popthatzit.com) and post a link here. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-this-thing-off-my-back-a-canuck-doper-universal-health-care-case-study/628699/51 "2012-07-25T18:13:03Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > We asked Dr. M that; he said that sometimes they will drain naturally, but this one looks fairly deep; doesn’t recommend trying to break it, because if it’s starting to get infected, that could just spread the infection. However, he said that if it does break naturally, hot compresses will help it to drain. Even before it breaks, hot compresses will help it “come to a head” and start to drain; when that happens it’ll also be less uncomfortable. Icky, and needing to be bandaged, and ultimately still needing to be removed. This advice from when Typo Knig had such a thing on his back (many years ago). In his case, once it drained and healed up, he let it go; about 10 years later it started to grow again and at that point he had it excised. ---
**Author:** ![Alice\_The\_Goon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Alice\_The\_Goon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alice_The_Goon)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-this-thing-off-my-back-a-canuck-doper-universal-health-care-case-study/628699/52 "2012-07-25T18:22:46Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Just remember to have the entire process videoed, then put it up on [popthatzit.com](http://popthatzit.com) and post a link here. 😃 Excision of it is not that exciting. Incise the skin with a scalpel, dig around in there for the sac and pull it out, and stitch it up. You can’t do that when it’s inflamed and infected, so there’s no popping or pus or anything (if you’re into that sort of thing). And even when you’re draining an infected one, it’s still not that cool or exciting, because the smell of it is so bad, you’ll be sorry you’re even in the room. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-this-thing-off-my-back-a-canuck-doper-universal-health-care-case-study/628699/53 "2012-07-25T18:59:51Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You mentioned you had a drug plan at work - how much is that? Assuming it’s a separate expense. > > Regards, > Shodan It’s not listed as a separate item, but lumped into a group life benefits package (as far as I can tell from my pay stub). Runs about $60 per month for the whole benefit, which includes life insurance, so I can’t give you a definite break-out. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-this-thing-off-my-back-a-canuck-doper-universal-health-care-case-study/628699/54 "2012-07-25T19:11:30Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > For any Americans following along, an employer’s prescription drug plan that covers 100% is a better than average plan (in my Ontario experience). I’ve usually had 80% coverage. Our plan doesn’t give 100% coverage for all items. As far as I can tell, it gives 100% for the most common drugs; a portion of coverage for some less common drugs, so we do have to pay the balance; and some others, doesn’t cover at all, so we pull the full cost. The coverage seems to be linked in some mysterious way to the Sask Pharmaceutical listings, which I don’t understand. That’s what I meant in my earlier post about the pharmacist helping us get one recurring prescription on the Sask Pharma list, by sending a letter to Sask Health, which in turn gets it covered by our work drug plan. > [@hogarth](#): > > Northern Piper, did you get a receipt that says “Cost of drug $N, cost to you $0”? It might be useful for our American friends to show what the cost of the antibiotic would be in absence of coverage. Good point! I dug out the reciept; it was $31, covered in full by the work drug plan. Here’s my corrected summary: \*\*[Revised] July 22: Had the Prescription Filled Wait Time:\*\* 18 days. **Waiting Room Time:** 30 minutes. **Treatment Received and Times:** Initial consult with GP (10 minutes); drug info from pharmacist (5 minutes) **Treatment Time (Total):** 15 minutes **Medical Fees & Co-Pays:** $0.00 **Prescription Costs (paid by work drug plan):** $31.00 **Prescription Co-Pay:** $0.00 **OTC Costs:** $0.00 **Parking and other incidental costs:** $0.00 ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-this-thing-off-my-back-a-canuck-doper-universal-health-care-case-study/628699/55 "2012-07-26T01:20:48Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > Can you also do a rough tally of the taxes you’re paying? Sales, gas, etc.? Well, it’s a bit complicated to try to nail down, because both the federal and provincial governments have a variety of taxes, and they all go into two common pots, called the General Revenue Fund (Federal) and the General Revenue Fund (Saskatchewan). All government expenditures then come out of the GRFs; there isn’t a dedicated health care pot. However, the main taxes that most citizens in Saskatchewan pay are: federal income tax; provincial income tax; federal Goods and Services Tax (“GST”); Provincial Sales Tax (“PST”); and fuel tax (provincial). The rates for the federal and provincial income taxes are set out here: [What are the income tax rates in Canada?](http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/ndvdls/fq/txrts-eng.html) [QUOTE=Federal Income Tax] • 15% on the first $42,707 of taxable income, + •22% on the next $42,707 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over $42,707 up to $85,414), + •26% on the next $46,992 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over $85,414 up to $132,406), + •29% of taxable income over $132,406. [/quote] For Saskatchewan, the rates are: > [@](#): > > •11% on the first $42,065 of taxable income, + > > •13% on the next $78,120, + > > •15% on the amount over $120,185 The GST and the PST are both at 5%, but the taxable items are a bit different; there are more exemptions for the PST, and the PST just applies to tangible property, while the GST applies to more things, plus services (e.g. - lawyers’ fees; contractors’ installation fees, etc.). Fuel tax in Saskatchewan is 15¢ per litre of fuel. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-this-thing-off-my-back-a-canuck-doper-universal-health-care-case-study/628699/56 "2012-07-26T01:29:29Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Socialism! Fun fact: the medicare system in Saskatchewan (the first in Canada) was in fact conceived by North America’s first elected socialist government, the CCF under Tommy Douglas. (It was actually brought to fruition by his successor as premier and Saskatchewan CCF leader, Woodrow Lloyd.) Douglas later became the first leader of the federal NDP. The Medical Care Act, to create transfers to allow all provinces to set up universal health care coverage programs, was introduced by the Liberal minority government of Lester Pearson, backed by Douglas’s NDP, and passed in 1966. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-this-thing-off-my-back-a-canuck-doper-universal-health-care-case-study/628699/57 "2012-07-27T00:14:21Z")
One thing I do know is that the global cost per capita of all medical services here (including whatever is covered by provincial and employer-provided insurance) is roughly 2/3 of what Americans pay. And everyone is covered and the results show. Eight years ago, I slipped on ice and broke an ankle (actually, one of the leg bones in the ankle area). I spent about 4 hours waiting in Emergency before seeing a doctor (actually, I saw a triage doctor in a new minutes, but I was put way down the line after the determination that there was nothing life threatening). My wife came and took my medicare card to the hospital admissions office. I spent another two or three hours in a gurney in the hall and they brought me dinner. Then I was taken up to a room, my ankle was partially cast and iced to bring down the swelling. Four days later they operated, put a metal plate in and sent me home. Every second day a nurse came to change the dressing. After about ten days, they took the dressing off and I had an appointment with the surgeon two weeks later and was discharged. That was it. No money changed hands either with the doctor or hospital. ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-this-thing-off-my-back-a-canuck-doper-universal-health-care-case-study/628699/58 "2012-07-27T20:08:31Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You mentioned you had a drug plan at work - how much is that? Assuming it’s a separate expense. > > Regards, > Shodan My plan through work costs about $170 per month of which I pay about $10.50 and my employer pays the rest. It covers pretty much any valid medical/dental cost not paid for by the provincial plan and pays 80% after the initial deductible of $60 per person/$100 per family in a calendar year. At present for us, this is mainly prescriptions, eyeglasses and such. In Ontario, low income residents can be covered under the Ontario Drug Benefit program for prescriptions, dental, and some other medical costs, while after I hit 65, the province will pay pretty much the full cost of prescriptions (there is a $2/$6.11 co-pay, depending on income level). There is also the Trillium Drug Program for people with unusually high drug costs which subsidises you if your costs exceed a certain npercentage of your income. Any drugs you get in a hospital are considered as part of the hospital charge and paid by the provincial plan. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-this-thing-off-my-back-a-canuck-doper-universal-health-care-case-study/628699/59 "2013-01-06T08:14:04Z")
Hi, all, I’ve been meaning to update this thread, but what with Christmas and work and a few other things, just didn’t have time. The major development is that the antibiotic prescription really did the job. Within a week of me taking it, the soreness disappeared, as did the cyst itself. The prescription seems to have drained it out - now, instead of bump on my back, I’ve actually got a little depression. As a result, I didn’t do anything about calling the specialist’s office to see when the appointment would be. I decided I would wait to hear from them, but given the good result from the prescription, I didn’t feel any sense of urgency. So, on November 21, I got a letter from the specialist’s office, setting up an appointment for December 4. I have to say, that was a bit longer than I thought it would take, since the last time I had a cyst removed it went much faster. However, since it’s only a cyst, I assume it didn’t have a high priority. (The last time I had one removed, it was bleeding on occasion, which seemed to get the doctor worked up a bit, so things moved faster.) \*\*November 21: Received date for appointment with specialist Wait Time:\*\* 140 days. **Waiting Room Time:** 30 minutes. **Treatment Received and Times:** Initial consult with GP (10 minutes); drug info from pharmacist (5 minutes) **Treatment Time (Total):** 15 minutes **Medical Fees & Co-Pays:** $0.00 **Prescription Costs (paid by work drug plan):** $31.00 **Prescription Co-Pay:** $0.00 **OTC Costs:** $0.00 **Parking and other incidental costs:** $0.00 [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-this-thing-off-my-back-a-canuck-doper-universal-health-care-case-study/628699/60 "2013-01-06T08:30:59Z")
So, although I had the appointment for December 4, I had to move it, because of a work commitment. I called Dr. S’s office, and they were able to move it to December 16. On the 16th, I went to Dr. S’s office, which is just a block from my own. I walked; no parking fees! When I got there, there was no-one in the waiting area. The receptionist took my health card info, checked the schedule on the computer, and took me straight into the examination room. I waited about 5 minutes, and Dr. S. came in. I explained why I had gone to Dr. M, and his referral, and also that the antibiotic had resulted in the cyst draining. I said that I thought I’d better have him look at it just in case. He agreed that it didn’t sound like surgery would be needed; took a look at it and explained that the cyst was still there, but had drained completely; that’s what the depression was. No need for any surgery; told me that I was now on his patient list, so if it swelled up again, no need to go through Dr. M - I can call Dr. S’s office directly. So, that was that; socialised antibiotic eliminated the need for socialised surgery. \*\*December 16: Appointment with specialist Wait Time:\*\* 165 days (12 of which were my own delay, caused by my request to re-schedule). **Waiting Room Time:** 40 minutes. **Treatment Received and Times:** Initial consult with GP (10 minutes); drug info from pharmacist (5 minutes); consult with specialist (10 minutes) **Treatment Time (Total):** 25 minutes **Medical Fees & Co-Pays:** $0.00 **Prescription Costs (paid by work drug plan):** $31.00 **Prescription Co-Pay:** $0.00 **OTC Costs:** $0.00 **Parking and other incidental costs:** $0.00 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-this-thing-off-my-back-a-canuck-doper-universal-health-care-case-study/628699.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-this-thing-off-my-back-a-canuck-doper-universal-health-care-case-study/628699.md?page=4)