# Get your GOD-damned idiocy out of my education! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 30, 2004, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-your-god-damned-idiocy-out-of-my-education/277358 "2004-11-30T17:58:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-your-god-damned-idiocy-out-of-my-education/277358/161 "2004-12-01T21:41:58Z")
Also, in terms of this thread; I don’t think creationism has any place in science class. It’s not science. I don’t think theists are more ignorant then I am, or that they are idiots for holding what they believe to be true. I disagree with them and I don’t precisely understand why they believe in God. Perhaps they have good reasons they can’t articulate or good reasons that I don’t understand or no reason and that’s what “God” wants; I don’t know. Were I to think someone an idiot for not accepting what I accept-be it creationism/atheism/etc, then I can be charged with the exact same thing because I previously didn’t accept what I accept and accepted what they accept. Even though I’m an atheist, I don’t find God belief ‘stupid’/‘idiotic’/etc. I don’t find it reasonable (to me, obviously), but I also don’t think that I’m the final magic man of what is true. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-your-god-damned-idiocy-out-of-my-education/277358/162 "2004-12-01T21:51:10Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > That doesn’t make any sense. A lack of religion might be atheism, but a lack of hair color is not baldness. A lack of hair color is albinism. If you lack hair, you are bald. Albinism could be a hair color (white), but bald is predicatred on absence of hair, not different hair. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-your-god-damned-idiocy-out-of-my-education/277358/163 "2004-12-01T21:59:45Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > If you believe in things that aren’t supported by the available evidence (and by your own admission, there’s no evidence that could completely disprove the existence of God), you have faith in something. You’re mixing up “I believe” with “I reckon this is probably the correct answer, given available evidence and theories, and will act as such”. That’s not “faith” in a religious sense. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-your-god-damned-idiocy-out-of-my-education/277358/164 "2004-12-01T22:03:34Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > If you lack hair, you are bald. Then you should have worded your analogy this way: If atheism is a religion, then baldness is an amount of hair. I don’t know why you put color in it. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-your-god-damned-idiocy-out-of-my-education/277358/165 "2004-12-01T22:11:28Z")
> [@Meatros](#): > > Do you notice the **disbelieves** OR denies part? [Disbelieve](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=disbelieve). It’s an active thing if it takes a direct object. Disbelieving something means to actively reject it, not to say, “I don’t see any evidence to believe it.” ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-your-god-damned-idiocy-out-of-my-education/277358/166 "2004-12-01T22:19:10Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Then you should have worded your analogy this way: If atheism is a religion, then baldness is an amount of hair. I don’t know why you put color in it. “Baldness is a hair colour” is a deliberate paradox to show the absurdity of the comparison. Baldness could NOT be a hair colour, therefore atheism could NOT be a religion. Get it? This is a very very well-known phrase, **Liberal**. If I didn’t think so highly of you, your seeming incomprehension would appear, to me, anyway, like an intentional hijack. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-your-god-damned-idiocy-out-of-my-education/277358/167 "2004-12-01T22:50:37Z")
> [@bup](#): > > [Disbelieve](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=disbelieve). > > It’s an active thing if it takes a direct object. Disbelieving something means to actively reject it, not to say, “I don’t see any evidence to believe it.” I see no mention of ‘actively rejecting’ it. Additionally I’d argue that God isn’t a direct object, but that’s beside the point. Again, all atheism is, is the lack of belief in God. If you have no active believe in God you are an atheist. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-your-god-damned-idiocy-out-of-my-education/277358/168 "2004-12-01T22:51:40Z")
> [@Meatros](#): > > I see no mention of ‘actively rejecting’ it. Additionally I’d argue that God isn’t a direct object, but that’s beside the point. > > Again, all atheism is, is the lack of belief in God. > > If you have no active believe in God you are an atheist. That should be ‘belief’. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-your-god-damned-idiocy-out-of-my-education/277358/169 "2004-12-01T22:52:49Z")
Again though, my point still stands: A=without, Theos =God, ism=belief in God. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-your-god-damned-idiocy-out-of-my-education/277358/170 "2004-12-01T23:10:42Z")
**Bup** , would you give it up already and quit being a douche? Atheism in Greek means “not theistic.” It just means a person who does not have a belief in gods. It is not necessarily a hard assertion that gods can’t exist. Having no belief in something is a default position. It’s the starting point. When you are born you have no beliefs. You do not have an infinite amount of negative beliefs, you simply have no beliefs at all. I’m not even sure that it’s meaningful to say that God can’t be disproven as long as no one can provide a falsifiable definition of “God.” It’s also not meaningful to tell someone that they have “faith” that an undefined nonsense word doesn’t exist. What exactly are they _denying_. You can’t prove Blidgets don’t exist, can you? Does that mean you have “faith” that they don’t. From my perspective, I can’t really take a position on God because nobody’s been able tell me what that word even means. Asking me if I believe in God is like asking me if I believe in Blart. I need to know what Blart is. So far, no one’s ever been able to supply a definition so I can’t answer the question. I don’t know what I’m being asked. I’m sure that you think you’re being clever and provocative with this tack about atheism being some sort of negative faith but it’s really a tired and unoriginal argument around here. Atheists don’t believe in God the same way they don’t believe in Santa Claus. The assertion that Santa can’t be absolutely disproven might be true but it’s not meaningful. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-your-god-damned-idiocy-out-of-my-education/277358/171 "2004-12-01T23:15:49Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I’m not even sure that it’s meaningful to say that God can’t be disproven as long as no one can provide a falsifiable definition of “God.” It’s also not meaningful to tell someone that they have “faith” that an undefined nonsense word doesn’t exist. What exactly are they _denying_. > > You can’t prove Blidgets don’t exist, can you? Does that mean you have “faith” that they don’t. From my perspective, I can’t really take a position on God because nobody’s been able tell me what that word even means. Asking me if I believe in God is like asking me if I believe in Blart. I need to know what Blart is. So far, no one’s ever been able to supply a definition so I can’t answer the question. I don’t know what I’m being asked. Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-your-god-damned-idiocy-out-of-my-education/277358/172 "2004-12-01T23:21:18Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Then you should have worded your analogy this way: If atheism is a religion, then baldness is an amount of hair. Or how about, \*“If atheism is a religion, then baldness is a haircut.” \* A little snappier, doncha think? ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-your-god-damned-idiocy-out-of-my-education/277358/173 "2004-12-01T23:36:32Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > Or how about, \*“If atheism is a religion, then baldness is a haircut.” \* A little snappier, doncha think? Oh, oh! I’ve got one. How about: When Evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve. What? ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-your-god-damned-idiocy-out-of-my-education/277358/174 "2004-12-01T23:45:29Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Having no belief in something is a default position. It’s the starting point. When you are born you have no beliefs. You do not have an infinite amount of negative beliefs, you simply have no beliefs at all. And, as has been discussed on these boards before, newborns aren’t atheistic. > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I’m not even sure that it’s meaningful to say that God can’t be disproven as long as no one can provide a falsifiable definition of “God.” It’s also not meaningful to tell someone that they have “faith” that an undefined nonsense word doesn’t exist. What exactly are they _denying_. > > You can’t prove Blidgets don’t exist, can you? Does that mean you have “faith” that they don’t. From my perspective, I can’t really take a position on God because nobody’s been able tell me what that word even means. Asking me if I believe in God is like asking me if I believe in Blart. I need to know what Blart is. So far, no one’s ever been able to supply a definition so I can’t answer the question. I don’t know what I’m being asked. God is defined as an all-powerful, all-knowing, everlasting being. Now does the question make sense? > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I’m sure that you think you’re being clever and provocative with this tack about atheism being some sort of negative faith but it’s really a tired and unoriginal argument around here. > > Atheists don’t believe in God the same way they don’t believe in Santa Claus. The assertion that Santa can’t be absolutely disproven might be true but it’s not meaningful. Then go do something the fuck else. Nobody’s forcing you to post. I don’t care what you call it, so long as you recognize there’s a difference between professing no knowledge of whether God exists or not, and believing God doesn’t exist. Believing that there is no God is an act of faith. I’m not saying it’s a religion. Faith is not the same as religion. I won’t even call it atheism. I don’t care. Semantic crap _is_ boring, and often leads to the tail wagging the dog. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-your-god-damned-idiocy-out-of-my-education/277358/175 "2004-12-02T00:05:47Z")
> [@bup](#): > > And, as has been discussed on these boards before, newborns aren’t atheistic. Yes they are, by definition. > [@](#): > > God is defined as an all-powerful, all-knowing, everlasting being. > > Now does the question make sense? Nope. You haven’t provided a definition, just a loose conglomerate of general attributes. Nothing in your definition is falsifiable or scientifically meaningful. What is “God” _made_ of? Where is it in the universe? What do you mean by “entity?” > [@](#): > > Then go do something the fuck else. Nobody’s forcing you to post. I’m here to fight ignorance. Don’t take it personally. You should e grateful for the education. > [@](#): > > I don’t care what you call it, so long as you recognize there’s a difference between professing no knowledge of whether God exists or not, and believing God doesn’t exist. That difference is usually articulated as “hard atheism” and “soft atheism.” Neither position requires any faith. > [@](#): > > Believing that there is no God is an act of faith. No it isn’t. Not anymore than believing that vampires don’t exist. > [@](#): > > I’m not saying it’s a religion. Faith is not the same as religion. I won’t even call it atheism. I don’t care. Semantic crap _is_ boring, and often leads to the tail wagging the dog. You’re the one who started this crap. It’s not as clever as you thought it was. Don’t feel bad. It happens to all of us. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-your-god-damned-idiocy-out-of-my-education/277358/176 "2004-12-02T00:08:30Z")
> [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by Yeticus Rex > > As for the Zeus believer, I can only say he believes what he believes or NOT believes. > > Originally Posted by **FinnAgain** > I’m sorry, but this makes no sense to me. > Can you please rephrase that? His beliefs are independent from my beliefs. Nothing more, nothing less. > [@](#): > > **FinnAgain** > Because, otherwise I get all confused and you ask things like > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by Yeticus Rex > > > > Did I do such a thing? > > It seems to me that if you accept Zeus as a real and honest to God God > (I couldn’t resist) > then you could accept any of the modern ideas as well. I accept/reject modern ideas regardless of whether or not Zeus is a real and honest to god god (I couldn’t resist either). > [@](#): > > What I do not understand is the logic that says "our current gods are cool, but Zeus, he’s just kerazey! > Now, depending on what you believe about Zeus (and think good thoughts or he will send you to Hades…) I’ll be able to discuss that further. > Right now I’m just confused. There are actually three Zeus’s that I know of, and they all happen to be dogs, not gods. (Can’t resist that one either) All three of them are kerazey! > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Quote: > > Originally Posted by Yeticus Rex > > > > Both…Science and prayer. > > I would plant seeds and pray for a successful crop to make bread with. > > Let me put this a different way. > If I was to take away one or the other, which one would you have to be left with in order to survive? Wasn’t there an [experiment](http://www.h-net.org/reviews/showrev.cgi?path=3695970089528) like this in Russia last century? If you took away the bread, then you are a dictator. If you took away the prayer, then …er um, just how are you going to take away the prayer? I think you’re trying to get me to claim that my views/beliefs are superior over others, including yours…I tell you that neither are not, but they are my views/beliefs nonetheless regardless. ---
**Author:** ![alimarx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@alimarx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alimarx)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-your-god-damned-idiocy-out-of-my-education/277358/177 "2004-12-02T00:17:40Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > … > I try to believe in a God every other thursday after lunch. 12th Day Adventist? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-your-god-damned-idiocy-out-of-my-education/277358/178 "2004-12-02T00:27:58Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Specifically, if you take the 7 “days” as being “periods of time” and not “24-hr periods” You would be surprised at the hidden meanings in the bible if instead of 7"days" being “168 hours” it really meant “an undetermined quantity of space aliens with ray guns.” By the way, if I was scribing a scroll, and I had God as my editor… I’d hope the fucker’d catch me being as sloppy as to forget the span of a day. “ **Finn!** ”, God would say, “A day is the ammount of time from when the moon rises to when it rises again. Whaddya, stupid?” Maybe God was busy when someone was scribing Genesis. > [@Nava](#): > > it’s kind’a funny how nice it fits with the Big Bang,paleoastrophysics, the soup thingee and the general order given by archaeology (first life appears in the seas, plants before animals, mankind is a relatively recent thing). Would you mind elaboration on what connections you see between hard science and the bible? > [@Nava](#): > > Several of the biggest students of fossils and evolution during the mid-20th century were Jesuits. This isn’t all that surprising. As even (most) theists plant seeds when planting time comes, rather than praying for bread, I would expect there to be groups still dedicated to knoweldge. Of course, the unscientific bit comes after all the data is collected an analyzed. Some sneaky bugger often works out what is really happening in reality (to within a good probability of being correct), and then claims that the Magic Panda simply caused there to be rules/reality/whatever. Snuck that panda in the side door. Tricksy. > [@Nava](#): > > Don’t assume that everybody who believes in God denies science, please. No, but I _can_ **prove** that everybody who believes in God cannot be acting in accord with the key tenets of science, **in this respect**. > [@Nava](#): > > I use examples in my own scientific writings, writers of religious books use parables. See, thing is, if I were to be writing about some jazz that God said; I’d want to get it as accurately as possible. You know, journalistic like, give all the details with none of the parable. What’d you want with people trying to sell second and third hand God anyways? > [@Nava](#): > > On the other hand, one of the reasons I’m glad that my soon-to-be-ex-employers didn’t allow me to take the job I was offered in the US last year is that I’m as uncomfortable with the whole religious climate there as you are. There’s no one religious climate in the states, although there are cetainly pockets of concentrated belief. If you’d lived in Manhattan or Austin or LA I doubt you’d have been bombarded with any specific religious vibe at all. Then again, I could be wrong. > [@Nava](#): > > I do hope you don’t mind that I pray for you guys… Shhh! When you pray, you never know _what_ [might be listening!](http://www.cthulhu.org/) Ahem, I mean, thank you. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@The\_Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tim)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-your-god-damned-idiocy-out-of-my-education/277358/179 "2004-12-02T00:41:34Z")
The vocabulary of non-belief is rough and highly individualistic. There is little motive force for non-believers to organize about how they don’t believe. You also find few disagreeing atheists getting into bitter fights about the identity of atheism. Not only is the concentration of atheists too low but the absurdity of the activity generally collapses the activity into a parody of the activity. I suggest that non-belief can be classified as weak or strong and can come in three flavors. The flavors are agnostic, atheistic, and apatheistic. Agnostics do not know if God exists. A weak agnostic leaves it at that. They, personally, do not know if God exists. A strong agnositic believes that nobody knows if God exists, and more over nobody can know. Weak atheists don’t believe in God. That is they, literally, lack any belief in God. A strong atheist believes there is no God. That is they, literally, believe in a lack of God. Apatheists don’t care if God exists. A weak apatheist, personally, doesn’t care if God exists or not. A strong apatheist believes that it doesn’t matter if God exists or doesn’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-your-god-damned-idiocy-out-of-my-education/277358/180 "2004-12-02T00:45:02Z")
there is actually a word for those who simply don’t care about the question one way or the other. They’re called “ignostics.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-your-god-damned-idiocy-out-of-my-education/277358.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/get-your-god-damned-idiocy-out-of-my-education/277358.md?page=10)