# Getting 110 volts from a 220 volt outlet **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 1, 2012, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-110-volts-from-a-220-volt-outlet/614455 "2012-03-01T16:02:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![FatBaldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecd19e/32.png) [@FatBaldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FatBaldGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-110-volts-from-a-220-volt-outlet/614455/21 "2012-03-01T22:52:43Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > Would it be illegal/against code to modify the washer-dryer pair so that the washer cord is fed from the dryer, rather than plugging directly into the wall? Maybe add a 110 V outlet to the dryer, to plug the washer into? I know I’ve seen (long ago) a 110 outlet on an electric stove, and more recently, outlets on the back of stereo equipment. (This assumes there’s a four-prong plug for the dryer.) I don’t know about illegal/against code, but I’m sure not going to do anything to mess up the warranty on her brand new washer/dryer. Looks like running a 110v circuit to the laundry closet is going to be the answer. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-110-volts-from-a-220-volt-outlet/614455/22 "2012-03-02T00:17:03Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > Where? Right here [QUOTE=FatBaldGuy] [snip]is there such a thing as an adapter plug, that could plug into the existing outlet and split the power into 2 plugs for 220 and 110?[snip] [/QUOTE] Granted he didn’t come out and say he needed the circuit but his question suggested he needed both. Hopefully you didn’t ask that question because I referred to present day voltage standards 240/120 compared to older 220/110. That’s a po-tay-to / po-tot-toe issue that I assumed the reader would understand. And I should repeat that your suggestion, while possibly functional, isn’t code and could possibly be dangerous to future tenants. I’ve never seen anything like **J-P-L** has on his stove other than a portable generator adapter which would be a bad idea to use on a large appliance. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-110-volts-from-a-220-volt-outlet/614455/23 "2012-03-02T01:05:08Z")
> [@FatBaldGuy](#): > > I don’t know about illegal/against code, but I’m sure not going to do anything to mess up the warranty on her brand new washer/dryer. Oops. Good point. ---
**Author:** ![thelabdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@thelabdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelabdude)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-110-volts-from-a-220-volt-outlet/614455/24 "2012-03-02T01:05:47Z")
I think outlets on stoves are common. Ours has a 120V one. I think when our house was built in 1970, the 2 conductor with ground SE met code for the stove. I wonder what it would have cost to repair the old unit? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-110-volts-from-a-220-volt-outlet/614455/25 "2012-03-02T01:32:36Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > You don’t want to do that. The existing wire gauge is too small to feed a sub-panel. Well, not really, unless there is a code cite that prohibits a 30 amp sub-panel. As long as you’re not over-protecting the washer circuit, it would probably work okay. ---
**Author:** ![J-P\_L](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/j-p_l/32/3156_2.png) [@J-P\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/J-P_L)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-110-volts-from-a-220-volt-outlet/614455/26 "2012-03-02T01:45:37Z")
this is the [adapter](http://www.homedepot.ca/product/gas-range-adaptor/905477)that I have ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-110-volts-from-a-220-volt-outlet/614455/27 "2012-03-02T03:51:31Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Well, not really, unless there is a code cite that prohibits a 30 amp sub-panel. As long as you’re not over-protecting the washer circuit, it would probably work okay. Even if code permitted it, it’s a really really bad thing to do. The whole point behind a 220 outlet is that you need to plug something into it that needs more power than you can get from a 110 outlet. This is why you can’t multi-drop 220 outlets on the same circuit like you can 110 outlets. For the same reason, you can use #12 wire and a 15 amp 110 outlet and mulit-drop them, but if you use that same #12 wire and a 20 amp 110 outlet you can’t, even though internally the only difference between a 15 amp and 20 amp outlet is the little extra tab on the side of the connector (they both have exactly the same current carrying capability internally). The idea is that if you have something designed for more power it’s kinda expected that you are going to draw more power out of it. Because the wire from your new sub-panel is only rated for 30 amps, your sub-panel has to be rated for 30 amps. But if you plug in a dryer you can expect that it very well might draw close to 30 amps. Just for giggles lets say it only draws 20 amps. Add to that 15 amps from the 110 circuit and you’re over the 30 amp breaker limit. Basically, the major flaw with this design is you’ve made it fairly likely to blow the sub-panel’s main breaker any time both outlets are used. Hence, it’s a very bad design. This is also the underlying principle as to why the OP’s only real choice is to have a new, separate 110 line run for the washer. Now, if the existing circuit were rated for 50 amps, you could put in a 50 amp panel and run a 30 amp 220 circuit for the dryer and a 15 amp 110 circuit for the washer with no problem. 50 amp circuits for dryers aren’t very common though in my experience (at least not around here) so I kinda doubt the OP has one. ---
**Author:** ![thelabdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@thelabdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelabdude)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-110-volts-from-a-220-volt-outlet/614455/28 "2012-03-02T14:02:30Z")
Interesting, the old combo ran fine on the existing wiring and breaker, but the new one won’t? Do we have data showing the new combo draws more current than the old? Isn’t the EPA forcing more efficient appliances? One consideration is balance. If the old washer motor was 240, it would have pulled from both legs equally. A 120 motor only pulls from one. A few years ago I added a sub panel. It runs off a 50 amp breaker and I have breakers adding up to 150 amps in it. Nothing has blown yet. ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-110-volts-from-a-220-volt-outlet/614455/29 "2012-03-02T14:39:51Z")
[QUOTE=J-P L] this is the [adapter](http://www.homedepot.ca/product/gas-range-adaptor/905477)that I have [/QUOTE] Interesting, yet frightening gizmo! It’s worth noting that this adapter plugs into a 50-amp circuit, so whatever you plug into it will have effectively \*\*zero \*\*overload protection. What makes this particular thing possible is that it plugs into a 4-wire receptacle, so separate neutral and ground are available. But, due to the lack of overload protection, I’d rather avoid using it - the appliance’s power cord will more likely melt away before the 50-amp breaker senses anything wrong. ---
**Author:** ![J-P\_L](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/j-p_l/32/3156_2.png) [@J-P\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/J-P_L)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-110-volts-from-a-220-volt-outlet/614455/30 "2012-03-02T14:44:46Z")
> [@gotpasswords](#): > > Interesting, yet frightening gizmo! It’s worth noting that this adapter plugs into a 50-amp circuit, so whatever you plug into it will have effectively \*\*zero \*\*overload protection. > > What makes this particular thing possible is that it plugs into a 4-wire receptacle, so separate neutral and ground are available. But, due to the lack of overload protection, I’d rather avoid using it - the appliance’s power cord will more likely melt away before the 50-amp breaker senses anything wrong. If you read the specification, you’ll notice that the device contains a 15 amps internal fuse. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-110-volts-from-a-220-volt-outlet/614455/31 "2012-03-02T14:50:45Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > Even if code permitted it, it’s a really really bad thing to do. > > The whole point behind a 220 outlet is that you need to plug something into it that needs more power than you can get from a 110 outlet. This is why you can’t multi-drop 220 outlets on the same circuit like you can 110 outlets. For the same reason, you can use #12 wire and a 15 amp 110 outlet and mulit-drop them, but if you use that same #12 wire and a 20 amp 110 outlet you can’t, even though internally the only difference between a 15 amp and 20 amp outlet is the little extra tab on the side of the connector (they both have exactly the same current carrying capability internally). The idea is that if you have something designed for more power it’s kinda expected that you are going to draw more power out of it. > > Because the wire from your new sub-panel is only rated for 30 amps, your sub-panel has to be rated for 30 amps. But if you plug in a dryer you can expect that it very well might draw close to 30 amps. Just for giggles lets say it only draws 20 amps. Add to that 15 amps from the 110 circuit and you’re over the 30 amp breaker limit. Basically, the major flaw with this design is you’ve made it fairly likely to blow the sub-panel’s main breaker any time both outlets are used. > > Hence, it’s a very bad design. > > This is also the underlying principle as to why the OP’s only real choice is to have a new, separate 110 line run for the washer. > > Now, if the existing circuit were rated for 50 amps, you could put in a 50 amp panel and run a 30 amp 220 circuit for the dryer and a 15 amp 110 circuit for the washer with no problem. 50 amp circuits for dryers aren’t very common though in my experience (at least not around here) so I kinda doubt the OP has one. True enough. It’s not the best solution, and I wouldn’t ordinarily recommend it, although sometimes necessity dictates different solutions. I’ve done similar things in my past to come up with a workable setup, but with the understanding that it’s temporary. A user would probably have to make sure he/she didn’t use both appliances at the same time, although I would suspect the main amperage draw is the motor starting amps on both pieces. I don’t know what the running load for a dryer is, offhand. ---
**Author:** ![Satchmo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/satchmo/32/4223_2.png) [@Satchmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satchmo)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-110-volts-from-a-220-volt-outlet/614455/32 "2012-03-02T14:55:31Z")
> [@gotpasswords](#): > > Interesting, yet frightening gizmo! It’s worth noting that this adapter plugs into a 50-amp circuit, so whatever you plug into it will have effectively \*\*zero \*\*overload protection. > > What makes this particular thing possible is that it plugs into a 4-wire receptacle, so separate neutral and ground are available. But, due to the lack of overload protection, I’d rather avoid using it - the appliance’s power cord will more likely melt away before the 50-amp breaker senses anything wrong. Well, the specs say it has a “Built-in 15 Amp fuse”. So it’s probably all right. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-110-volts-from-a-220-volt-outlet/614455/33 "2012-03-02T15:44:19Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > you can use #12 wire and a 15 amp 110 outlet and mulit-drop them, but if you use that same #12 wire and a 20 amp 110 outlet you can’t, even though internally the only difference between a 15 amp and 20 amp outlet is the little extra tab on the side of the connector (they both have exactly the same current carrying capability internally). The idea is that if you have something designed for more power it’s kinda expected that you are going to draw more power out of it. Sorry for the hijack, but… When I fixed up our basement, I used #12 wire for all the receptacles. All of the receptacles are 20 amp, and I have multiple receptacles on the same circuit. Is this a code violation? Do I need to replace all my receptacles with 15 amp ones? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-110-volts-from-a-220-volt-outlet/614455/34 "2012-03-02T16:07:35Z")
> [@J-P\_L](#): > > this is the [adapter](http://www.homedepot.ca/product/gas-range-adaptor/905477)that I have That device has CSA certification but not UL implying it might be Canadian product. Also, on the page of your cite somebody asks if it is available in the USA and got no reply. A search of inventory to my local stores turns up no results. Did you buy it in the USA? If so, how long ago. It appears as if it is not available in the USA. (Edit - I see by your profile that you are in Canada) Maybe Canada has coded it as OK but USA probably hasn’t) Anybody - go to the site and put your zip code into the search box and see if your local HD has one. I’m curious to see if these are still sold in the USA. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-110-volts-from-a-220-volt-outlet/614455/35 "2012-03-02T16:34:35Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Sorry for the hijack, but… > > When I fixed up our basement, I used #12 wire for all the receptacles. All of the receptacles are 20 amp, and I have multiple receptacles on the same circuit. Is this a code violation? Do I need to replace all my receptacles with 15 amp ones? 😕 Yes, that’s a code violation. You need to install 15 amp receptacles. You can keep the #12 wire of course, and you can even keep the 20 amp breaker. The 20 amp breaker with 15 amp receptacles may seem like it should be a code violation, but the NEC allows it since 15 amp receptacles are actually usually identical to 20 amp receptacles internally (and 15 amp receptacles have to be able to withstand 20 amps for UL). ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-110-volts-from-a-220-volt-outlet/614455/36 "2012-03-02T16:48:25Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > Yes, that’s a code violation. You need to install 15 amp receptacles. > > You can keep the #12 wire of course, and you can even keep the 20 amp breaker. The 20 amp breaker with 15 amp receptacles may seem like it should be a code violation, but the NEC allows it since 15 amp receptacles are actually usually identical to 20 amp receptacles internally (and 15 amp receptacles have to be able to withstand 20 amps for UL). Thanks. But now I’m pissed because I have to replace all my receptacles now. What a stupid rule. ---
**Author:** ![Satchmo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/satchmo/32/4223_2.png) [@Satchmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satchmo)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-110-volts-from-a-220-volt-outlet/614455/37 "2012-03-02T18:09:37Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > That device has CSA certification but not UL implying it might be Canadian product. Also, on the page of your cite somebody asks if it is available in the USA and got no reply. > > A search of inventory to my local stores turns up no results. > > Did you buy it in the USA? If so, how long ago. It appears as if it is not available in the USA. > (Edit - I see by your profile that you are in Canada) Maybe Canada has coded it as OK but USA probably hasn’t) > > Anybody - go to the site and put your zip code into the search box and see if your local HD has one. > > I’m curious to see if these are still sold in the USA. Doesn’t look like it’s available in the U.S. I logged into my local store and searched for both the SKU and Model number, the only suggested similar items are for RV converters/extentions. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-110-volts-from-a-220-volt-outlet/614455/38 "2012-03-02T19:02:14Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Thanks. But now I’m pissed because I have to replace all my receptacles now. What a stupid rule. I won’t tell anyone if you won’t 😉 ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-110-volts-from-a-220-volt-outlet/614455/39 "2012-03-02T19:08:37Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > Because the wire from your new sub-panel is only rated for 30 amps, your sub-panel has to be rated for 30 amps. But if you plug in a dryer you can expect that it very well might draw close to 30 amps. Just for giggles lets say it only draws 20 amps. Add to that 15 amps from the 110 circuit and you’re over the 30 amp breaker limit. Basically, the major flaw with this design is you’ve made it fairly likely to blow the sub-panel’s main breaker any time both outlets are used. > > Hence, it’s a very bad design. It’s actually a very normal design. Many panels have circuit capacity beyond the main breaker capacity. The idea is chances are you are not going to draw all circuits to the max all the time. In this case, a washer/dryer it is not unusual to just run one at a time, though some people prefer to do multiple loads of laundry which could cause problems. In the above case, though generally not recommended, I would strongly consider a high capacity extension cord for the washer, or perhaps a hole in the wall can allow the washer cord to poke through to a different outlet. ---
**Author:** ![thelabdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@thelabdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelabdude)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2012, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-110-volts-from-a-220-volt-outlet/614455/40 "2012-03-03T01:28:58Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > No, not always. Many older dryer outlets were wired **only** for 220V, with only the 2 hot wires – no neutral. From such an outlet, you can only get 220V (unless you use the ground as part of the circuit – an illegal & dangerous procedure). > > easy way to check is to look at the outlet – does it have 4 connectors, or only 3? How old? The first dryer my mother had in the 50’s had a 3 wire cord. Yes using the same bare wire for ground and neutral for the 120 components was a bad practice. Not only was it common, it met code until fairly recently, perhaps the 2005 revision. Now, I doubt we can say what is possible until we know how many wires in the cable, what size, and the loads of the new washer and dryer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-110-volts-from-a-220-volt-outlet/614455.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-110-volts-from-a-220-volt-outlet/614455.md?page=3)