Getting a dog

[CrazyCatLady]

@AnaMen

Adopting an adult dog is different. For one thing, you can get one that already would be a good fit.

You can if you’re willing to put some time and thought and honesty into what’s going to be a good fit and actively look for such a dog, which was one of the “excruciating” suggestions you objected to. If the OP goes in and talks seriously and honestly to the shelter staff about what their lifestyle and expectations are, the odds are he’ll get something that will work out for everyone. If he just goes to shelter and says “Ooooh, that one’s cute, let’s get it!” the odds that the situation won’t work out shoot way, way up. If his very first dog-owning situation is a disaster, he’s likely to give up on the whole dog idea altogether. In that scenario, everybody loses–he’s miserable for a few months and spends the rest of his life missing out on the joy that owning a well-suited dog can bring, the shelter staff has all the headache and expense of trying to adopt the same animal out a second time, the dog is miserable for a few months and possibly misses out on a chance to be adopted by people he could make happy, and the dog that could have made the OP happy misses out on being adopted.

For another, if you adopt it and things don’t work out, it has barely depreciated in terms of how much the next person might want it. The number of people who would take an eight-week-old puppy greatly exceeds those that would take a twelve-week-old puppy, but who cares if a dog is five or five plus a month?

The extra month of age is usually irrelevant, but having been in a home and returned matters. People don’t want the dog that’s been returned to the shelter, especially if it’s happened more than once–they assume there’s a reason nobody wants to keep him, ya know?

Although obviously any of us could become incapacitated at any moment, I hardly think a 60 year old should assume that he will be too decrepit to walk his dog any time soon or that he is not aware that dogs need to eat, shit, and walk. Plus he is married, so that’s two possible people to care for the dog. If he’s so old, I guess he should hurry up and get his dog soon so it can learn to drag him around in time for next year when his legs fall off.

I’m not saying he’s automatically going to be too infirm to walk the dog in a few years, or that he doesn’t know they need to eat, shit, and walk. I’m saying that most people who have never had a dog don’t fully understand just how relentless those needs are, and that his odds of having increased mobility issues or a somewhat lengthy hospital stay in that time frame are higher than if he was 25, or even 45, and it’s worth spending 10 seconds considering how they’ll continue to meet the dog’s needs if those things should happen.

[AnaMen]

I never said he should not consider carefully which dog to choose. Picking out a dog is the last thing I’d ever describe as excruciating, although shelter staff often do try mightily to make it unpleasant in a misguided attempt to get every dog a “perfect” home. Sometimes people are barred from adopting for spurious reasons, so I’d just tell them what they want to hear and get my dog home.

A shelter need not reveal that Bozo is back at the shelter for the fifth time in a month, though if he has an actual problem, obviously they should and typically do say so.

The problem is that these kinds of lists weed out the wrong people. Irresponsible people just wave away the information and get a dog anyway, while responsible people get overwhelmed and make the rational choice not to get a dog in light of how much they are told is involved. Then they go and get a weak substitute, like a cat.

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

@AnaMen

…while responsible people get overwhelmed and make the rational choice not to get a dog in light of how much they are told is involved. Then they go and get a weak substitute, like a cat.

This is where we politely disagree. I believe there was nothing on that list that was so scary or excruciating to frighten someone off. A responsible person might say “yeah, a fence is the best option, but I can’t afford one. What’s my next best option?”. You can’t make a list of suggestions with every possible possible back up plan. DOn’t forget, that list was specifically put together based on the OP’s description and comments, so it’s a great starting point for a conversation. I think you’re just simply making more of it’s fright-factor than it warrants.

@araminty

OP, my recommendations in full:

• fence your backyard
• get your wife on board and enthusiastic - it won’t be YOUR dog/s, they’ll be family pets
• read dog training books, e.g., Karen Pryor’s Don’t Shoot the Dog.
• visit your local shelter or rescue org, explain to the staff your lifestyle in detail - be very honest with them, be upfront with your concerns. I bet they’ll recommend what everyone here is saying: adult dogs, unflappable temperaments.
• meet a few adult dogs for adoption. If your local shelter is anything like ours here in the Bay area, you’ll have your choice of chihuahua mixes or pit bull type mixes. Even if these aren’t your ideal, dream breeds, meet them as individuals first, and consider their personalities and your lifestyle.
• take your dogs home! Ideally, you’ll have a securely fenced yard (buried mesh, no climbable points) and a dog door, so they can come and go as they please. If your dogs have previously been inside dogs, house-training will likely come easy. If not, you have a bit more of a process ahead.
• enroll in a basic obedience class, and ask your trainer specifically about socialization. Having a dog that pulls on the leash, or lunges toward other stimuli, makes walkies less fun. **Consider working toward the **Canine Good Citizen test.
• **find a good vet **- read Yelp reviews and ask for recommendations. Your dogs will need ongoing medication including vaccination, flea and tick deterrents, heartworm prevention, etc. Consider a dog expenses savings account, or pet insurance.

If it sounds like a lot of work… it is. This is what people talk about when they call people “good pet owners.” It’s also incredibly fun and rewarding.

Good luck! Let us know if you have further questions.

Bolding mine. Very little of this list is expensive or hard work, and is mostly positive an upbeat. SUre a fence can be expensive, but that’s it, and he even says (later) “ideally”.

[AnaMen]

A dog does not care if you have a fence. The fence is a convenience for the owner to avoid having to walk around outside.
The list itself ends with the statement that it IS a lot of work, and CrazyCatLady also claimed that a dog has “relentless” needs that people underestimate.
Of course a dog is some work and has needs.
But we did not domesticate them because we were bored and needed some sort of creature to serve… If you don’t assume your dog is a perpetual infant that you must devote your life to caring for, you may get to experience a dog serving YOUR needs. We domesticated them to make our lives easier, not as a source of inconvenient chores or drain of cash.

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

@AnaMen

A dog does not care if you have a fence. The fence is a convenience for the owner to avoid having to walk around outside.

That is simply not true. My dog loves to go in and out during the day when we are home and find a warm patch of sun to lie in. Whether or not she is walked, she loves the freedom of having a yard of her own to roam, off leash. Im not even sure what you mean by “a dog doesn’t care if you have a fence.” It’s the owner’s responsibility to make sure the dog is in a safe environment. Again, this specific OP mentioned leaving the dog outside on a lead. Suggesting a fence was in direct response to that comment when it was clear he exploring options for leaving the dog outside. In that case, recommending a fence (in place of a long lead) was the right thing to do.

Sure, dogs are work. That is the truth and it’s ok. I disagree that it’s relentless, except in the sense that there is no day off when you are tired or the weather is crummy. It doesn’t make that list scary or excruciating, though. That’s a lot of hyperbole. Really, I just don’t think someone who wants a dog wouldn’t find that list off putting at all. If anything, it would simply start a good conversation about alternative solutions. I just don’t think the OP is that fragile.

[Sunny_Daze]

OK - OP people obviously feel strongly about their dogs

I’ll second the 2 dog vote. They are social animals. If you are not going to be around during the day, a dog will likelier be happier with another animal around.

Consider the size of the dog you want. I have 2 very large dogs. A Bernese Mountain dog (we think, he’s a rescue), who clocks in at 100 lbs. And a Newfoundland, who is about 130.

They are both extremely low activity dogs, and spend all day indoors, except when walking with us.

But size matters for input (how much they need to eat) and output (I’ll let you figure that one out).

Also think about activity level. I mentioned that mine are very low key. My Newfie is frequently compared to a bear rug. Smaller breeds are often very active, and very vocal.

Do you want the dog or dogs to provide any alert or guard dog service (bark at the mailman or intruders)? Would you rather they were completely quiet?

Do you want a dog that is completely friendly with everyone? More reserved with others, but friendly with you?

Just more things to think about.

I would also recommend adopting an older dog or dogs. Puppies are a lot of work (cute as all get out, and fun) but remember that they are babies. You will be getting up in the middle of the night. Puppies destroy stuff. They don’t want to be left alone, and someone needs to let them out in the middle of the day. And for most breeds it takes a few years to get through the teenage bits. I have gone through thinking that if I get a puppy I get to train it the way I want to, or I’ll get to have it longer, but having done the puppy thing AND having done rescue dogs, honestly, I would go rescue. With an adult dog, you know a lot more about what you’re getting. It’s grown, it’s easier to evaluate. With a puppy, you’re making guesses.

Just IMHO.

Keep us posted.

[AnaMen]

I’m sure your dog enjoys the yard, IvoryTowerDenizen, but would also be fine with you going outside with her. Normal dogs do not flee the moment they are off a leash or outside of a fenced enclosure, and they want to be near their humans. I’m not saying she should be left unsupervised in an unfenced yard, just that she could wander around with you there. People that dump their dogs outside in fenced yards all day (not that you do this) are worse for dogs than people without fenced yards that actually walk them.
Yes, the OP asked about having the dog out in the yard on a long leash, but maybe that was because people kept harping on the need for a fence so he figured this type of time outside was essential for the dog. It isn’t.

[jsc1953]

@AnaMen

Yes, the OP asked about having the dog out in the yard on a long leash, but maybe that was because people kept harping on the need for a fence so he figured this type of time outside was essential for the dog. It isn’t.

Precisely. I did not know that leaving the dog tethered outside was worse than leaving it alone inside…good to know. Thanks for the input.

One consensus we seem to have reached: older, rescue dogs. I was thinking a puppy (just 'cuz they’re so darned cute!) but I’m convinced that an older dog is the way to go.

[chiroptera]

I fostered dogs for over 20 years. Most rescues rely on foster homes to house the dog until a “forever” home is found and believe me, dog foster parents with a well-run rescue are pretty particular about where the dog goes! We keep the dog in our homes, get to know them, and can figure out if the dog would be a good fit with a prospective owner through visiting and interacting with them and figuring out what the adopter expects from the dog. I have turned down many applicants because they would not be a good fit. I have also found suitable dogs for people who wanted one.

Anyway, another vote for an adult dog with known qualities. I stay in touch to this day with many people who adopted dogs that l fostered, going back over ten years.

I have three dogs. When l am home they have about one third of a fenced acre. I walk or do stuff with them almost daily, besides just letting them out. Every one of them is quite distressed about being left outside alone. They want to be where the humans are, or failing that, with the other dogs. They are used to me working during the day, so they chill out and nap.

Puppies are cute for a few months. Then they are teething, and very naughty and a pain in the ass. The adult dog is what you will live with for a decade or more.

[araminty]

@IvoryTowerDenizen

Bolding mine. Very little of this list is expensive or hard work, and is mostly positive an upbeat. SUre a fence can be expensive, but that’s it, and he even says (later) “ideally”.

Thank you for defending my list. I must say, I’ve never been excoriated for providing too much information on the SDMB before.

(I’m a she, just so you know.)

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

@araminty

Thank you for defending my list. I must say, I’ve never been excoriated for providing too much information on the SDMB before.

(I’m a she, just so you know.)

Clearly exactly what we suspected would happen did: the OP wasn’t scared off by your list and it prompted a useful discussion. But with this, I really need to check out of this thread!

[Rhiannon8404]

@araminty

Thank you for defending my list. I must say, I’ve never been excoriated for providing too much information on the SDMB before.

(I’m a she, just so you know.)

Just now read through your list and I agree with it wholeheartedly! These are all things we suggest to potential adopters who inquire at the shelter where I volunteer. Thank you.

[AnaMen]

@araminty

Thank you for defending my list. I must say, I’ve never been excoriated for providing too much information on the SDMB before.

I did not excoriate you or your list. I provided a different point of view, which is that dog ownership is just a normal thing you can do and does not require an enormous effort or piles of money. If you feel that I have scathingly criticized you, I’m very sorry, and I’d like to know what I said that created that impression.