# Getting bumped off a plane question. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 20, 2019, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-bumped-off-a-plane-question/842042 "2019-10-20T17:44:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2019, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-bumped-off-a-plane-question/842042/21 "2019-10-21T18:35:36Z")
> [@WildaBeast](#): > > Just as a point of clarification – passengers getting bumped **involuntarily** due to overbooking is extremely rare. In those cases the airline almost always is able to find people willing to volunteer. As I understand it the most common reason for passengers being involuntarily denied boarding is a last minute change of aircraft. Like for example, a 767 has a mechanical problem, and the airline doesn’t have another 767 available. The best they can come up with is a 737. But all the passengers won’t fit on the much smaller 737, so 20 people will need to be bumped. Obviously finding 20 volunteers is a pretty tall order, so most of those will be involuntary, but it’s preferable to outright canceling the flight. Involuntary bumps are more likely to happen if the flight was generally either very inexpensive or very expensive. The required compensation is 4x the price of your ticket up to a max of $1350. So if tickets were generally either very cheap or very expensive, then the cost to passengers might reasonably be higher than the airline has to pay, so there won’t be a lot of volunteers. I have been on a flight where they were offering $1350 in cash to people to get bumped for a day. I regret that I did not move fast enough. We would have lost a day of our vacation but also the bump would have basically paid for the whole thing. I also volunteered to be bumped from a flight where there were two additional non-voluntary bumps, one of whom was very very mad about it and yelled at the airline employee a lot. Afterward, I spoke to her, was kind and polite, and asked if it was possible to get a first class upgrade for my bump. And it was. Be nice! You will not get anything by yelling at the desk attendant and demanding your rights. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2019, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-bumped-off-a-plane-question/842042/22 "2019-10-21T22:58:00Z")
The easiest way to avoid being bumped is to establish very high frequent flyer status with the airline you are traveling on. They don’t bump customers who pay them a lot. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-bumped-off-a-plane-question/842042/23 "2019-10-22T13:11:35Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > The easiest way to avoid being bumped is to establish very high frequent flyer status with the airline you are traveling on. They don’t bump customers who pay them a lot. “Easiest”??? So I have to fly dozens of times per year for no reason just to avoid being bumped for the once every two or three years times I fly for a purpose? ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-bumped-off-a-plane-question/842042/24 "2019-10-22T15:03:03Z")
As I recall, the Dr. Dao situation was particularly galling because they wanted him removed to fly some flight crew employees to another location. that may have seemed a priority to the company, but the rest of the world didn’t see it that employees get a free flight and someone gets tossed off. Plus, they airline took a page from the police blotter handbook - smear the victim to make excessive force seem OK. As I recall, they claimed he wasn’t a good doctor, had been disciplined for overprescribing restricted drugs or something - oops, wrong Dr. Dao. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-bumped-off-a-plane-question/842042/25 "2019-10-22T15:51:07Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > “Easiest”??? So I have to fly dozens of times per year for no reason just to avoid being bumped for the once every two or three years times I fly for a purpose? Same is true in any business If you have to decide between two customers who do you inconvenience. The customer who uses your service monthly, or the one who uses you every few years. If it was your decision as a manager/business owner who would you pick? ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-bumped-off-a-plane-question/842042/26 "2019-10-22T15:53:21Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > As I recall, the Dr. Dao situation was particularly galling because they wanted him removed to fly some flight crew employees to another location. that may have seemed a priority to the company, but the rest of the world didn’t see it that employees get a free flight and someone gets tossed off. > > Plus, they airline took a page from the police blotter handbook - smear the victim to make excessive force seem OK. As I recall, they claimed he wasn’t a good doctor, had been disciplined for overprescribing restricted drugs or something - oops, wrong Dr. Dao. Dao was convicted of obtaining drugs by fraud and of trading prescriptions for sexual favors. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-bumped-off-a-plane-question/842042/27 "2019-10-22T15:54:08Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > As I recall, the Dr. Dao situation was particularly galling because they wanted him removed to fly some flight crew employees to another location. that may have seemed a priority to the company, but the rest of the world didn’t see it that employees get a free flight and someone gets tossed off. > > Plus, they airline took a page from the police blotter handbook - smear the victim to make excessive force seem OK. As I recall, they claimed he wasn’t a good doctor, had been disciplined for overprescribing restricted drugs or something - oops, wrong Dr. Dao. There were lots of ways that United Airlines screwed up in the Dr Dao forcible removal situation; they first offered cash for volunteers to deplane, but stopped the offers at $800 and switched to forced bumping, and they had three people who agreed to disembark but not him. Not sure why they insisted that he and only he had to disembark. And if you read the [Wikipedia article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Express_Flight_3411_incident), it describes the crappy, belligerent attitude of the United supervisor. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-bumped-off-a-plane-question/842042/28 "2019-10-22T16:16:48Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > The easiest way to avoid being bumped is to establish very high frequent flyer status with the airline you are traveling on. They don’t bump customers who pay them a lot. Every airline I’m aware of, once they get down to passengers at the same fare/loyalty status rank, chooses who will get bumped by when they checked in. They’re not (currently anyway) going into the granularity of individual miles traveled or anything. So the easiest way to not get bumped is to set an alarm for 24 hours before your flight and go online and check in. There will be lots of people who check in later than you and will get bumped before you. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-bumped-off-a-plane-question/842042/29 "2019-10-22T16:22:11Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > Every airline I’m aware of, once they get down to passengers at the same fare/loyalty status rank, chooses who will get bumped by when they checked in. They’re not (currently anyway) going into the granularity of individual miles traveled or anything. > > So the easiest way to not get bumped is to set an alarm for 24 hours before your flight and go online and check in. There will be lots of people who check in later than you and will get bumped before you. If you notice I said “high frequent flyer status”, not just being a member. I am _global services_ on United. They are not going to bump me regardless. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-bumped-off-a-plane-question/842042/30 "2019-10-22T16:24:42Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > “Easiest”??? So I have to fly dozens of times per year for no reason just to avoid being bumped for the once every two or three years times I fly for a purpose? Not for no reason, I fly overseas approximately 5-6 times per year, and domestically about a dozen or more times a year for work and personal travel. There’s a perk for being a regular customer. One of those is not having a fear of getting bumped. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-bumped-off-a-plane-question/842042/31 "2019-10-22T16:25:55Z")
Discriminating using customer status is not illegal. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-bumped-off-a-plane-question/842042/32 "2019-10-22T17:01:15Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > In the rare situation where they are asking you to leave the plane _after_ boarding, they are still legally entitled to do so. The link to DOT rules just uses the phrase “denied boarding” which suggests you are prevented from boarding. Once you have boarded, they have missed their opportunity to deny boarding, and now it is forced disembarkation, kind of a different thing. Where does it state that they can force you out once you have been allowed to board, for overbooking reasons? ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-bumped-off-a-plane-question/842042/33 "2019-10-22T20:16:06Z")
So **drachillix** and **Omar Little** both completely missed the point of my post. Well, okay then. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-bumped-off-a-plane-question/842042/34 "2019-10-22T20:27:07Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > The link to DOT rules just uses the phrase “denied boarding” which suggests you are prevented from boarding. Once you have boarded, they have missed their opportunity to deny boarding, and now it is forced disembarkation, kind of a different thing. Where does it state that they can force you out once you have been allowed to board, for overbooking reasons? You may be right, but does anyone have a clear cite that DOT make this distinction? It’s not clear from the DOT regs I linked in post #2. The article title uses the colloquial term “bumping”, which it defines as voluntarily or involuntarily giving up your seat, which it then says is also known as denied boarding. It’s not clear that “denied boarding” is the primary technical term, or if the definition excludes asking you to leave your seat after you have boarded. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-bumped-off-a-plane-question/842042/35 "2019-10-22T20:45:30Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > So **drachillix** and **Omar Little** both completely missed the point of my post. Well, okay then. I don’t think they did, really. Do you know an easier way to avoid being bumped? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-bumped-off-a-plane-question/842042/36 "2019-10-22T21:00:05Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > I don’t think they did, really. Do you know an easier way to avoid being bumped? I think his point is that doing a bunch of flying in order to achieve a high status is only practical for people who do a lot of travel already. If you don’t, then it seems like one of the hardest and most expensive ways to avoid being bumped. I can think of an easier way to avoid being bumped, travel at times when the flights are less likely to be full, that is far easier than attaining high status. ---
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-bumped-off-a-plane-question/842042/37 "2019-10-22T21:15:46Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > You may be right, but does anyone have a clear cite that DOT make this distinction? > > It’s not clear from the DOT regs I linked in post #2. The article title uses the colloquial term “bumping”, which it defines as voluntarily or involuntarily giving up your seat, which it then says is also known as denied boarding. It’s not clear that “denied boarding” is the primary technical term, or if the definition excludes asking you to leave your seat after you have boarded. What you linked to aren’t the regs but rather a plain-English explanation of them. **Reply** linked to the regs in post #14. The regulations themselves repeatedly refer to a person who is “denied boarding,” but the regulations don’t define “denied boarding.” Ordinarily, when construing an undefined term in a regulation, you go with the plain language meaning of the rule. I’m not looking to see whether the Department of Transportation has clarified whether a person who is removed from a plane after boarding has been “denied boarding” within the meaning of the rules but there are articles on the web that suggest being pulled from a plane you are already seated on is not, in fact, the same as being “denied boarding.” ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-bumped-off-a-plane-question/842042/38 "2019-10-22T21:20:44Z")
> [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](#): > > What you linked to aren’t the regs but rather a plain-English explanation of them. **Reply** linked to the regs in post #14. The regulations themselves repeatedly refer to a person who is “denied boarding,” but the regulations don’t define “denied boarding.” Ordinarily, when construing an undefined term in a regulation, you go with the plain language meaning of the rule. I’m not looking to see whether the Department of Transportation has clarified whether a person who is removed from a plane after boarding has been “denied boarding” within the meaning of the rules but there are articles on the web that suggest being pulled from a plane you are already seated on is not, in fact, the same as being “denied boarding.” Of course I agree with the plain English meaning, but it leaves open the possibility that we just haven’t found the regulatory definition. After the Dao case, it would be odd if DOT haven’t unambiguously clarified this point. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-bumped-off-a-plane-question/842042/39 "2019-10-22T21:24:48Z")
One easier way is to do what I do - fly Delta. They use a system that [allows people to choose how much compensation they would require to voluntarily give up their seats](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/how-delta-masters-the-game-of-overbooking-flights), and the number of people that they bump involuntarily is only a small fraction of the number for United and American. I have never been bumped involuntarily, but when I flew United, there were requests for volunteers on over half of all flights. Since I started flying Delta almost exclusively, I’ve never even heard a request for volunteers (I assume that it all takes place behind the scenes with their system). ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-bumped-off-a-plane-question/842042/40 "2019-10-22T21:36:44Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > One easier way is to do what I do - fly Delta. They use a system that [allows people to choose how much compensation they would require to voluntarily give up their seats](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/how-delta-masters-the-game-of-overbooking-flights), and the number of people that they bump involuntarily is only a small fraction of the number for United and American. Th [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-bumped-off-a-plane-question/842042.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-bumped-off-a-plane-question/842042.md?page=3)