# Getting liberals on board with the wall **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 7, 2017, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328 "2017-06-07T01:35:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328/21 "2017-06-07T07:26:06Z")
> [@cornflakes](#): > > On the trips I’ve taken down the Rio Grande in the Big Bend region, I’ve seen about seven wild horses, bear tracks, raccoons one fox and a couple of Cessnas flying overhead one day. The wall might well do severe environmental damage, for example if it interferes with the annual migration of the Cessnas. They come down in the fall from Canada, but their numbers have been decreasing. It’s illegal to hunt migratory Cessnas now. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328/22 "2017-06-07T07:58:48Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > The wall might well do severe environmental damage, for example if it interferes with the annual migration of the Cessnas. They come down in the fall from Canada, but their numbers have been decreasing. It’s illegal to hunt migratory Cessnas now. Can we build a wall to keep Canada geese out though? I’d get behind that, because screw those guys (buddies, friends). ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328/23 "2017-06-07T08:08:22Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > Is there any economic case for putting a line of solar panels along the border? Most of the border is in places where there aren’t a lot of people. Why would you put solar panels on the wall when you could put them somewhere where they _aren’t_ stretched out in a thin line a hundred miles from anything? On the other hand, a lot of the border is in desert which has a lot of solar availability versus the rest of the country. I’m not sure how this balances out versus transmission losses and additional maintenance costs due to remoteness. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328/24 "2017-06-07T08:27:10Z")
At any rate, I don’t think I’m a liberal when it comes to immigration, although I’m more liberal than the current GOP rhetoric which adds several -phobias to a simple desire to enforce the law. But even so, I am against a wall because it won’t work, is impossible, and would be too expensive at any rate. We’d need to expropriate 1 mile of land to the north of the border to forestall tunnels, which includes parts of San Diego and El Paso. Even at a horrible discount that land would be very expensive. Then we’d need to install guard towers every mile, and, with the help of sensor drones, shoot anything that moves. And then you’d still just have people just come in and overstay their visa. You could probably find way around that as well such as forcing people to come up with a large bond that is forfeited if they overstay, but that would hurt the economy from lack of tourism from middle class foreigners who can’t afford that $10K or more per person that would be needed to discourage illegal immigration via that route. (ETA: It might hurt the economy a _bit_ from lack of business travel but legitimate businesses would probably be less loath to come up with such a bond. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328/25 "2017-06-07T08:35:46Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > On the other hand, a lot of the border is in desert which has a lot of solar availability versus the rest of the country. I’m not sure how this balances out versus transmission losses and additional maintenance costs due to remoteness. Yes, but one of the advantages of the desert is that there’s a lot of it, so you don’t _need_ to use the strip of land right up against the border. The only way this makes sense to me is if the marginal cost of adding the panels is very small because of X infrastructure that already needs to be in place to support the wall. Otherwise, you can just put the panels somewhere more convenient. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328/26 "2017-06-07T08:49:16Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > Yes, but one of the advantages of the desert is that there’s a lot of it, so you don’t _need_ to use the strip of land right up against the border. The only way this makes sense to me is if the marginal cost of adding the panels is very small because of X infrastructure that already needs to be in place to support the wall. Otherwise, you can just put the panels somewhere more convenient. Plus, putting them in a near-circular array rather than strung out in a long line will obviously make installation and maintenance cheaper, and reduce transmission costs. And you can do all this without incurring the needless, stupid expense of building a wall that contributes absolutely nothing whatsoever to the power generation project. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328/27 "2017-06-07T08:53:56Z")
Build a wall between church and state. The left argument against current American immigration policy is it depresses worker wages, especially for working class minorities, and businesses exploit immigrants so Americans can have cheap vegetables. But lefties who think that aren’t going to go for a wall, unless maybe it’s constructed from the bones of the bourgeoisie. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328/28 "2017-06-07T10:56:41Z")
Maybe if the wall were to be built using only labor that is part of a court-directed community service program for those convicted or removed from office for violating government ethics rules or collaborating with a hostile foreign power. I mean, so long as there’s about two dozen soon-to-be former White House officials who are working in a chain gang in the desert, they aren’t going to build thousands of miles of wall by themselves, and the punishment speaks for itself. Yeah, I could support that. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328/29 "2017-06-07T11:38:46Z")
I describe the wall as the linear pyramid. A large ego-based construction with insignificant practical value, not even as grain storage. Adding solar panels to the concept is as equally dumb as adding solar panels to building a pyramid to justify its cost and waste. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328/30 "2017-06-07T12:24:45Z")
I’m actually for a wall on the Texas border, but rather one on the border between it and the other states. Somehow get Trump supporters to self exile there and wall them off. The added electricity would just be a bonus. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328/31 "2017-06-07T12:29:12Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Build a wall between church and state. > > The left argument against current American immigration policy is it depresses worker wages, especially for working class minorities, and businesses exploit immigrants so Americans can have cheap vegetables. But lefties who think that aren’t going to go for a wall, unless maybe it’s constructed from the bones of the bourgeoisie. This is true, illegal immigration can depress wages and they open themselves up to abuse. But lefties tend to deal with that by pushing for temporary ID so people can report abuse and a higher minimum wage. Taking jobs is a concern. When I was in San Diego, every low wage job was done by latinos. I’m not sure how people on the lower rung were supposed to break into the economy in that situation. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328/32 "2017-06-07T12:41:18Z")
I recall being surprised when I realized he was talking about an actual physical structure instead of using “wall” as a metaphor for increased border security protocols. (I consider myself a New England conservative, which makes me more liberal on social issues than 95% of the country but fiscally I come on a little to the right of Ebenezer Scrooge.) ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328/33 "2017-06-07T12:42:23Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > So I read an article that among the proposals for the wall with Mexico was the idea of covering it with solar panels. Surely such a long wall should be able to catch quite a bit of solar power and it strikes me that if the wall is combined with a green energy initiative that it may actually bring some on the left to be for the wall. What do you think of this idea? Can’t tell if serious. ---
**Author:** ![cornflakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@cornflakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornflakes)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328/34 "2017-06-07T12:48:48Z")
Maybe we could teach the bears to work on the solar arrays instead of letting them sneak into the US. They could also find tortillas for us _in the middle of the freaking desert!_ Also panthers–panthers will travel through the mountains of Northern Mexico and have been seen in Arizona and New Mexico. We have to stop this. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328/35 "2017-06-07T14:03:16Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Can’t tell if serious. God, I hope not. This reads like something the Daily Caller might post in an attempt to be funny. Perhaps next the OP could offer to allow the wall to identify as its preferred gender as an olive branch to liberals. ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328/36 "2017-06-07T14:40:25Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Or you could paint it with pretty colours with pictures of people of all races holding hands, and flowers and love and peace symbols. And announce that the construction company will be using ethically sourced materials and eating only organically grown food, and will employ a quota of minorities. > > Lefties _love_ that shit. They’ll come right on board. Can we put a community co-op garden on the roofs of the guard towers? My heirloom tomatoes are real climbers, and the razor-wire trellises would be just perfect! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328/37 "2017-06-07T14:55:36Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Also, solar panels don’t work real well when mounted vertically. Alright, let’s try this: We’ll put them on the facility at Guantanamo, and use that the get liberals to back off from wanting to shut it down! Genius, or what??? ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328/38 "2017-06-07T15:09:10Z")
> [@GargoyleWB](#): > > Can we put a community co-op garden on the roofs of the guard towers? My heirloom tomatoes are real climbers, and the razor-wire trellises would be just perfect! Well, forget the co-op part, and just make them farms. But then who is going to pick tomatoes in razor wire? Who can we get to do that? I can’t see the answer, but I know it’s right in front of me… ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328/39 "2017-06-07T15:27:46Z")
The solar-panel suggestion doesn’t address the underlying motive: Liberals and conservatives differ on what kind of compositional makeup they want the USA to have. There are some liberals who consider the immigration - legal or illegal - of people from Mexico to be a good thing, period. Therefore it doesn’t matter how many solar panels the wall has - if the wall stymies such immigration, it is undesirable. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328/40 "2017-06-07T15:46:59Z")
I disapprove of setting up a center to torture prisoners. Slapping solar panels on it doesn’t change that opinion. Same thing here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328.md?page=3)