# Getting liberals on board with the wall **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 7, 2017, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328 "2017-06-07T01:35:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328/41 "2017-06-07T16:10:38Z")
So if you believe that the wall will do nothing to stop illegal immigrants then why oppose it at all? Seems like exactly the sort of make work infrastructure programs that liberals love especially if it provides green energy in the bargain. Seems like a win win win for the leftists. Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328/42 "2017-06-07T16:23:14Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > Seems like exactly the sort of make work infrastructure programs that liberals love especially if it provides green energy in the bargain. Seems like a win win win for the leftists. Who exactly is in favor of useless “make work” projects? There’s plenty of real work that needs to be done to help people and infrastructure. This isn’t such a project, regardless of putting lipstick on a pig. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328/43 "2017-06-07T16:28:11Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > So if you believe that the wall will do nothing to stop illegal immigrants then why oppose it at all? Seems like exactly the sort of make work infrastructure programs that liberals love especially if it provides green energy in the bargain. Seems like a win win win for the leftists. Do right wingers suddenly believe that spending $20 billion to have people dig holes and fill them up again is just as worthy as spending $20 billion to build new weapons for the military? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328/44 "2017-06-07T16:33:13Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The solar-panel suggestion doesn’t address the underlying motive: Liberals and conservatives differ on what kind of compositional makeup they want the USA to have. > > There are some liberals who consider the immigration - legal or illegal - of people from Mexico to be a good thing, period. Therefore it doesn’t matter how many solar panels the wall has - if the wall stymies such immigration, it is undesirable. Sure thing. You keep telling yourself that. Hey guys, what if we painted the wall pink? Then we’d get the women to support it! ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328/45 "2017-06-07T16:35:59Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Do right wingers suddenly believe that spending $20 billion to have people dig holes and fill them up again is just as worthy as spending $20 billion to build new weapons for the military? If we’re going to pay people to dig holes and then fill the up again, why not just skip that step and just give them the money without requiring them to do useless work? Or, here’s another idea, pay them to fix our crumbling infrastructure? Or pick up trash? If we’ve got hundreds of billions of dollars to spend on useless projects, maybe we could spend it on not-useless projects instead? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328/46 "2017-06-07T16:42:01Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > This is true, illegal immigration can depress wages and they open themselves up to abuse. But lefties tend to deal with that by pushing for temporary ID so people can report abuse and a higher minimum wage. > > Taking jobs is a concern. When I was in San Diego, every low wage job was done by latinos. I’m not sure how people on the lower rung were supposed to break into the economy in that situation. By getting rid of minimum wage and enforcing immigration law. Or put them to work building that wall, moat, and trebuchets. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328/47 "2017-06-07T16:54:00Z")
Great idea! The explosion of sub-minimum wage opportunities will surely lead to an economic boom! Folks, there’s a giant reservoir of potential jobs that would be worth paying someone $4.50 an hour, and a giant reservoir of unemployed Americans wishing and hoping they could get that $4.50 an hour job. The market imbalance caused by this government interference is drastic. Yeah sure. That’s why the economy is terrible and the White Working Class voted for Trump, because they’re hoping and prayingl he’ll finally lower the minimum wage and make them employable again. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328/48 "2017-06-07T16:54:52Z")
> [@GargoyleWB](#): > > Can we put a community co-op garden on the roofs of the guard towers? My heirloom tomatoes are real climbers, and the razor-wire trellises would be just perfect! Whoa, growing pre-sliced tomatoes - freaking genius! If you can just get that wheat field to self-bake, we’ll have sammiches! [sub]except I don’t like tomatoes…[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328/49 "2017-06-07T17:08:20Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Build a wall between church and state. > > The left argument against current American immigration policy is it depresses worker wages, especially for working class minorities, and businesses exploit immigrants so Americans can have cheap vegetables. But lefties who think that aren’t going to go for a wall, unless maybe it’s constructed from the bones of the bourgeoisie. You might be on to something here… > [@drewder](#): > > So if you believe that the wall will do nothing to stop illegal immigrants then why oppose it at all? Seems like exactly the sort of make work infrastructure programs that liberals love especially if it provides green energy in the bargain. Seems like a win win win for the leftists. > > Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk Because wasting tens of billions of dollars is a terrible use of money when there are so many REAL infrastructure needs that will have actual benefits. > [@octopus](#): > > By getting rid of minimum wage and enforcing immigration law. > > Or put them to work building that wall, moat, and trebuchets. Want to significantly reduce illegal immigration? Actively and aggressively prosecute those that hire them. Why does EVERY solution deal on the supply side? Trickle down economics, the war on drugs, immigration…why does a capitalist shining city on the hill never look to those who are actually buying things? ---
**Author:** ![BeeGee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5a626/32.png) [@BeeGee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeeGee)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328/50 "2017-06-07T17:59:36Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > So if you believe that the wall will do nothing to stop illegal immigrants then why oppose it at all? Seems like exactly the sort of make work infrastructure programs that liberals love especially if it provides green energy in the bargain. Seems like a win win win for the leftists. > > Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk Because it’s fiscally irresponsible, logistically impossible, and downright stupid. I agree with Chisquirrel. Make fines for hiring non-US citizens without proper work permits a big whopping heavy fine and jail time for repeat offenders. And up the penalties for coyotes who are vermin of the worst sort. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328/51 "2017-06-07T18:13:05Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Want to significantly reduce illegal immigration? Actively and aggressively prosecute those that hire them. EXACTLY. Look, the USA is significantly larger and wealthier than Mexico and points south. This means that there will be a constant and consistent flow of people seeking a better life in the US regardless of legal efforts to stop them. If you truly want to end the problem, prosecute the people who hire them. Make ‘Hiring an undocumented worker’ or ‘conspiracy to hire an undocumented worker’ a 1 year prison sentence and $10,000 fine. _ **Per Hire.** _ Fine the company $50,000, again per hire. Just how fast do you think this problem would be solved once the prosecutions began? Now, sit back and wait for the corporatists and pro-business people to wail about how this would put them out of business and consider this: If you thought these people were on your side (pro-wage or anti-immigration), you just found out that they are not. They want illegal immigration because it keeps down wages and they don’t have to treat them as good as you and me, because we wouldn’t take as much shit from them. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328/52 "2017-06-07T18:54:43Z")
Hopefully, we will not get as far as_The evidence before the court is Incontrovertible, There’s no need for the jury to retire In all my years of judging I have never seen before Someone more deserving of The full penalty of the law Since, my friend, you have revealed Your deepest fears I sentence you to be exposed Before your peers_ ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328/53 "2017-06-07T19:16:20Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Hopefully, we will not get as far as_The evidence before the court is > Incontrovertible, > There’s no need for the jury to retire > In all my years of judging > I have never seen before > Someone more deserving of > The full penalty of the law > Since, my friend, you have revealed > Your deepest fears > I sentence you to be exposed > Before your peers_ Mother, should I run for president? Mother, should I wreck the government? Mother, will they put me in the firing line? Ooh, aah, is it just a waste of time? Ooh, babe, ooh, babe, ooh, babe Of course Mama’s gonna help build the wall ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2017, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328/54 "2017-06-08T18:37:23Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > So I read an article that among the proposals for the wall with Mexico was the idea of covering it with solar panels. Surely such a long wall should be able to catch quite a bit of solar power and it strikes me that if the wall is combined with a green energy initiative that it may actually bring some on the left to be for the wall. What do you think of this idea? I think that’s a great way to get the fossil fuel lobby to tear it down. ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2017, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328/55 "2017-06-08T19:11:17Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > There are some liberals who consider the immigration - legal or illegal - of people from Mexico to be a good thing, period. Therefore it doesn’t matter how many solar panels the wall has - if the wall stymies such immigration, it is undesirable. > [@Lemur866](#): > > Sure thing. You keep telling yourself that. Only a few posts above yours another poster said this - > [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > 1. Many of us on the left do not have much of a problem with illegal immigration. Yeah, legal immigration is better but even illegal immigrants contribute to our economy and culture. Many of us do not view them as scary others to keep out. Why do you consider Velocity’s comment deluded (If my reading of your post is correct) or something down those lines when many on the left (A person in this very thread) flat out says it? ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2017, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328/56 "2017-06-08T20:20:29Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > Why do you consider Velocity’s comment deluded (If my reading of your post is correct) or something down those lines when many on the left (A person in this very thread) flat out says it? There’s a huge difference between “good thing” and “not a big problem.” The former implies it is a desirable outcome. The latter means it’s understandable but not worth spending a huge amount of resources to eliminate. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2017, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328/57 "2017-06-08T23:39:18Z")
Agree 100% on the prosecution of those who hire illegals. And it would be fairly trivial to implement. If you hire someone for any task that takes more than \, you MUST upload their ID, a photo of them, and identifying information to some server. (or fill out a paper form and staple a polaroid to it) Failure to do this is the crime. It’s not a crime to hire someone who turns out to be illegal, it’s a crime to not report their information to the government. Then the police could trivially find the illegals. If the SSN is invalid, got em. If it doesn’t match their age/gender/rough physical description, got em. If someone has had their SSN stolen and multiple people are using it, got em. Once illegals are no longer being hired, the main thing the government would need to do now is make tickets back to someone’s home country free, and provide some kind of relocation fund so they can actually leave. No need for a wall or any physical barrier at all. In fact, there also wouldn’t need to be ICE SWAT teams raiding places. They can go arrest the employers instead, which could be done by uniformed officers politely visiting the employer’s premises and hauling whoever is responsible for hiring off in handcuffs. The illegals themselves, ICE can just wait for the illegals to come to them to ask for the ticket back and relocation funds. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2017, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328/58 "2017-06-08T23:43:49Z")
Well, and if the Feds walk into Hormel or Tyson and say, “You have 100 undocumented workers”, arrest the manager and hiring officers on 100 charges each and ultimately fine the company $5 million for it, how many corporate managers are going to keep doing it when it is their asses on the line? ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2017, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328/59 "2017-06-09T01:01:48Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Well, and if the Feds walk into Hormel or Tyson and say, “You have 100 undocumented workers”, arrest the manager and hiring officers on 100 charges each and ultimately fine the company $5 million for it, how many corporate managers are going to keep doing it when it is their asses on the line? Right. They would quit quite promptly. Prices would rise (less cheap labor), but so would wages, so for the majority of Americans (the ones not at the top), they would benefit. (rising wages affect workers across all wage levels, not just the bottom) ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2017, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328/60 "2017-06-09T01:16:54Z")
Or they’d just stop doing it and tell their bosses that they can’t get enough people at the wages being paid and the current working conditions. And then you have the wave of people who still did it because they were pressured by their bosses, got convicted and are now suing their former employers for million$. Either the company stops doing it or it pays the price. Since markets don’t disappear if companies do, someone else will step into the market, probably buy the same plant and perhaps do a better job of running it. That is how capitalist competition works. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-liberals-on-board-with-the-wall/788328.md?page=4)